Loose Steering Rack (internals)?

[petek]

I've got the finish line in sight with my Cobra build. Towed the Cobra behind my wife's Expedition today, first time I've ever towed anything heavier than a tiny sailboat. Tomorrow I get the car inspected by the Highway Patrol; today I attempted to get the front end aligned - and that's when I ran into a problem.

The fellow that was doing the alignment locked down the steering wheel with a fixture (making sure the ignition was on and the steering wheel wasn't locked by the ignition locking mechanism). He then raised the front end of the car, grabbed one of the wheels and jiggled the wheel. The steering rods moved in and out of the rack, the steering coupling to the steering column rotated a bit, but the steering wheel did not move.

The alignment fellow said that the steering rack was shot and that it should not have this much play (or any play for that matter). I asked him about the steering column coupling rotating and he really didn't have an answer.

I'll be putting the Cobra back in the garage tomorrow to check out the steering rack and linkage to the steering column, but does anyone have any pointers or suggestions? (Mustang II rack, Chevette tilt column, CRL linkage between the two.)

thanks!

[Bob Putnam]

Petek,

There are several possible sources of play in the steering. What I would do is...

Check the rack mounting bushings for looseness or softening.

Pull the boot off the inner end of the tie rod so that you can:
Check the radial play between the rack and the rack housing. When the car is jacked up and the wheel is jiggled left and right, can you see or feel if the rack is going up and down? Bad rack.

If you can't feel vertical movement, but the wheel goes in and out a bit with the pinion stationary, it is likely to be bad inner tie rods, or possibly worn rack/pinion gears. Less likely is a bad ball joint or loose wheel bearings. You can detect the latter two maladies if you're getting motion when you shake the wheel in and out at the top and bottom.

If you can feel neither of the above, and the pinion seems to be well connnected to the rack, you're probably losing motion in the coupling.

Many times it's a combination of all the above, just to make your life totally complicated.

[petek]

Bob,

Thanks for the pointers; I'll be checking everything this weekend for sure. Here's a picture of the steering linkage:



The joints are pretty hefty:



I've a feeling the problem will turn out to be in the column itself. The rack was new/rebuilt. A quick visual inspection of the parts and I didn't see anything loose.

I've had a little bit of experience with bad linkages ... take a look at this fine piece of fabrication:



This piece of poop was in my Manta. The phasing of the joints is wrong and one of the joints was causing the steering to be loose:



Scary! Fortunately I found and repaired the problem before I got into trouble:



Thanks for the suggestions!

[Jack21]

Here's what I learned doing my CR steering.

There is a ball and socket where the tie rods attach to the rack. If it's loose, you'll have slop. If it's a rebuilt, you should be able to, as Bob Putnam suggested, lay the boot back and tighten it up, assuming new parts were used.

That being said; if you're running manual steering you should be using the Flaming River rack. It's new, not very expensive, and it works. If power, use '79 up late Mustang power rack. Being aluminum, it weighs about 1/3 the cast iron MII rack, and the passenger side bolt hole in the CR frame is elongated to accomodate the slightly shorter center to center rack mount bolt location. I got the high effort, standard ratio rack rebuilt by AGR. Summit carries them. An additional step I took was to mount the rack up slightly with offset rack bushings to move the late rack centerline closer to where the MII rack centerline would be. Wanted to eliminate any chance of bump steer. Whether it is actually necessary or not, I can't say, but there is no bump steer in this setup.

Replace the CR shaft and couplings with Borgeson (or Flaming River). Use the Borgeson steering damper, Borgeson "DD" collapsable shafting, and needle bearing joints. There is no slop in this setup, and the collapsable shaft will collapse instead of your rib cage if you hit something.

No matter how tight you make the hole in the firewall where the steering column passes through, it will always have some slop. There is a simple fix for this. My column was 2". Took an ordinary 2" muffler clamp and put it around the column where it passes through the firewall, under the pedal set. Drilled 2 holes for the clamp bolts to go through the firewall right next to the firewall wiring harness. You'll need about a 1/8" shim under the clamp. Tighten the bolts, no slop.

There is an elongated slot where the column mounts to the cowl bar. Cut your Borgeson DD shaft so that when you slide the steering column up with the column bolt in place, you can slide the joints and shafting pieces apart or together. When you slide the column foreward, it all stays together (won't come off on you on the road if the setscrews loosen up). Comes in handy later if the steering wheel is a tooth or two off and you have to adjust it.

That Chevette column is no piece of work. Used an Ididit column which does a much better job. The drawback is the Ididit only has wiring for dimmers, e-flashers, turn signals, and horn. Lights, wiper, washer, and ignition gets moved to the dash. It's a piece of rewiring to tackle. (I probably have the worlds only Cobra that uses a real Ford ignition key.) I can dance you through it if you're handy with crimpers and a soldering gun.

Double Venom makes CR steering columns, and it may be a better solution to this as well. Ask him.

One more item. I'm working on this right now on mine. Your upper control arms, and front end alignment won't stay in place unless you take some precautions when putting them in. Don't paint the portion where the control arm bolts to and contacts the frame, or remove the paint if it's already painted. (Spray a little WD-40 on it after it's aligned to prevent rust) On the serrated portion of the arm; file the serrations so they're sharp. On the frame; stipple the area on either side of the bolt slot with a center punch. This should keep the arm from sliding after its aligned. Some guys even make a bracket with a locking bolt to keep the control arm from moving. That will be next if these arms slide around again.

[Double Venom]

Petek,
Lot of good advice here. It might be the rack, but I'm betting most of it is in the column and the joints.

The supplied joints are ok, but they have a miserable amount of built in "slop". The second source is the "extension tube" that is screwed on with a couple of sheetmetal screws. The third source is the nylon bushing on the end of the extension. The fourth source of slop/slack is the column itself.

We've covered the CR's steering system about as many times as the exhaust.

We build columns for our cars that are identical replacements for the Chevette column. No "extesion tube", the nylon grommet has been replaced with a pressed in needle bearing, the tilt still works and above all, it is collapsible!

You can get it with or without the ignition on the column...Sorry Jack, we've been shaving the GM key off the column for years and putting the '66 Ford ignition on the dash.

Lets review

New Column, with all new parts
New wiring (column wiring)
Needle roller bearings
No slop!
Collapses in case of impact
Tilts!
With or without key
Direct bolt in replacement
Wiring plugs in exactly as called for
Has the hi-low wiper switch and
Hi-beam built in as OEM

AND IT's a heck of a lot safer!

If you want we can also supply the Ford key, Bezel, Tumbler and switch. You send us your little 12" long wire harness, we'll wire it to the Ford switch and it will plug right into the CR's harnes.

Now for the Coupe de gra' (did I spell that right?) Pick up the shaft and both borgenson joints that Jack mentioned and you will be ready for any road course!

Trying to post a picture of the ignition....


DV

One more thing, Ive seen more than one guy not tighten the rack bolts up tight enough

[petek]

Jack, DV,

Thanks ... I've certainly got a good weekend of checking in front of me

I've about had it with the Chevette column. The "start" position decided to die when I pulled the car onto the trailer. Fortunately I had a 30A push button switch in the ol' junk box. I now have a starter switch duct taped to the steering column. I just might have to order up a column from you DV. How quick can you ship one out?

Of everthing in the car the ONLY thing that doesn't give me any concern is the electrics. I've got a Painless harness ... and a few degrees in Electronics Engineering.

Jack, where did you get the offset bushings for raising the rack?

thanks again everyone!

[Double Venom]

Petek,
Call me today at 740-852-5280. I can ship a column probably today or Monday at the latest. We normally don't do "sales" off of Brent's site, but this, to me is a major safety issue.

DV

P.S. The Flaming River rack you want is the FR 1502. Never used the "off-set" bushings so, no comment on those. I've never had a "bump-steer" issue, but on the other hand I personally only race in a straight line. If you want, we are a FR dealer, I can get you one of those too.

[CobraEd]

I had a similar problem with my used MustangII rack in my CR. I replaced the rack and the shart and all joints with new Flaming River stuff. very nice. Works great now.

http://www.flaming-river.com/enter.htm

Ed

[Jack21]

Whew. We keep this up, we'll rewrite the CR assembly manual and component guide the right way, one thread at a time.

Offset rack bushings are off the shelf speed shop item, or Summit, or DV. Ford Motorsport, PST, Moroso, etc. Again, it may be unnecessary (my particular paranoia), but it was a variable I tried to remove from the equation. And it may be applicable to power steering racks only, as the rack to mounting bolt centerlines in the MII, and Late M are slightly different.

My guess is of you compared the cost of all the Ididit and Borgeson pieces to DV's complete setup, DV's parts cost are about half, and it's specific to the CR Cobra.

Guess I don't have the worlds only Cobra with a Ford ignition key. And I thought I was being so clever. Mine's a '70 Ford F150 pickup, garden variety auto supply store piece. Where did you find '66 repros? Be true to your school, OK. If it says Powered by Ford outside, it should have a Ford key inside.

[Double Venom]

Jack,
I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to....

DV
PS... they aren't "repo's" they're actually OEM parts well, for the most part

[petek]

I'll let you guys know what I find out this weekend. And DV, your steering column was the first thing I though of!

petek

[petek]

Well I think I've found the problem. Take a look at this picture:


When I manually move the driver's wheel the rack itself moves up and down (the direction of the red arrow). The whole assembly is nice and tight to the frame, the linkage has virtually no slop, and the extra anchoring I put on the column is still holding the column in place tighly. So it looks like the new/rebuilt rack and pinion assembly I bought a number of years ago is bad. Looks like I'll be ordering up a Flaming River rack from Summit Racing.

Thanks for all of the help everyone!!!

[petek]

Just an update. It sure looks like it's the old rack, pulled the rod ends off and sure enough, the driver's side control rod out of the rack seems loose. Probably 1/16"? of play. No play on the other side or on the new rack.

Rec'd the Flaming River rack today. And I found two new rod ends in my collection of parts. Have to get the old rack out ... got the nuts off of the bolts but I'm going to have to move the radiator to get the bolts and rack off the chassis.

So I might as well drain the radiator and fix that weep at the t-stat housing (I'm thinking a thin layer of RTV will fix the weep).

Oh and I've still got to cut off 7/8" of the ends of the new rack's threaded rod part.

But by the time I get this all finsihed my VIN number for the Cobra should be here so I can get the car registered!

Ah, registered and on the road ... what a thought!!!!

Pete

[Double Venom]

Excellent Dude!

Looks like you're on the right track. Keep it going and post, post,post.

A hint that you might want to take.. Usually just raising the radiator (takes two people- one to lift) will allow you to pull the bolts out. Saves that big mess with draining, etc., etc.

DV

300 Cobras is NOT going to be enough!

[petek]

DV,

Great minds think alike. First thing I thought of this morning was "why don't I just unbolt the radiator and use a floor jack to raise the radiator up 1" ... that's all the clearance I need."

So tonight after dinner I'm going to give it a try. With luck and a little time maybe I'll be able to replumb the oil system and put the oil thermostat in too! :-)

thanks for all of the help ... AND ...

400 Cobras is NOT going to be enough!

[dscott]

Pete, according to the Classic manual you need to cut 7/8" from the rack. This is for the stock Ford rack. I don't normally cut the Flaming River rack. If it does need to be cut I let the alignment shop do it and normally it's only a very small amount. Cutting 7/8" from the Flaming River may be too much.
Don

[CobraEd]

DON, . . . YOU"RE SCARIN ME NOW BUDDIE!!! I HAVE THE FR RACK AND CUT THE ENDS LIKE THE CR MANUAL SAID. I EYEBALLED THE LENGTH AND IT LOOKED THE SAME??

AS I RECALL THEY STILL SCREW INTO THE TIE ROD ENDS ANOUT 3/4 OF AN INCH. ?????

PLEASE ADVISE

ED

[dscott]

Ed, I'm sure it won't hurt anything I just like as much thread as possible. 3/4" should be fine. Didn't mean to scare anyone. I always let the alignment shop do it because I had 1 I cut too short years ago and had to replace both inners. Now I let the pro's do it because if they screw it up they have to pay.
Don

[petek]

Don... THANKS!!!!!

I'll double check with the ol' mark one eyeball before I trim anything off of the rack (comparing the old rack and the new one).

[petek]

New rack is on and works great (not loose at all)!

Thanks everyone!