PAW Stroker

[sllib]

Does anybody have any experience with PAW's 427W block kit? It comes with the 351W block, crank, rods, pistons, rings, bearings, cam, timing chain set, and all machine work, including balancing, for $2500, and they are willing to swap and mix parts to suit the buyer. I talked to PAW and also a local (and very honest) machine shop owner, and he seemed to think I'd be hard pressed to build it myself for less. CHP's stroker kit would cost me a lot more, and most of the components seem to be of high quality. On another note, how much head and cam would it take to feed this monster? I had been kicking around using Trick Flow's R heads and their hyd. roller cam, but I'm open for suggestions. Most of my driving will be on the street, so 450-500 horses should suffice. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Bill Stradtner

[Jack21]

Ask your machine shop to build you a 393W using the Scat stroker crank, Eagle rods, and K&B #364 pistons. You should get a short block well within your budget that will give up a few cubes, but last a lot longer. Add a Comp, Crane, or Crower retrofit hydraulic roller, and aftermarket aluminum heads with slightly larger intakes (2.05 - 2.08), and stock location exhaust ports (so your headers fit) should make you a happy camper.

I'd love to do a build up of a 427W using an SVO block (4.125 x 4.00), and Cleveland heads, but not for any $2500.

[Fred Douglass]

Hey Jack 21,

You make a LOT of informative sense---and it isn't just "common sense" either. What I'd like to know is your answers to a few questions:

1. Does SVO make an aluminum block for the 351W? If so, what would be the weight savings over an iron block? Would it be worth the extra expense of building one up?

2. I am planning to buy an SPF with a 351W; is the 406 ci stroker going to present problems with "streetability"? I intend to make it a "daily driver" in New England (except the winter months) and wonder if the 500-hp rendition of this sb (such as Hal Copple, Freddie Rice and Ron Davely have will be a "hard starter" or present me with reliability problems either structural in nature or in plain old running. Where I live on Cape Cod sees median winter temps in the mid 40's.

3. Taking the above intended use into conideration, is the 393 version more desirable?

Any comments would be gratefully welcomed.

Fred Douglass

[Jack21]

Thanks for the complement. Can't say I always have the right answer, but can say I have and opinion based on "a few" years of hot rodding and living with or reworking my own mistakes.

SVO does make an aluminum block 351 last time I checked. The aluminum block was 120#, the iron block was 195#. Iron sportsman blocks were ~$800, SVO ~$1800, aluminum SVO ~$3200. For a street motor, it's a waste of money. For a race motor, depends on your Visa credit limit, and do you really need to shave off 75# with an aluminum block?

With an automatic trans, the 408 will give you a little more bottom end, and you won't rev it up where the small valves (for a 400 inch motor) are hurting you. Cleveland heads changes the equation.

For a daily driver street motor, I'd still opt for the 393; not too wild on the cam (218-228 @.050) or carb (700 - 750) or you'll hate it. Off the shelf parts, easy to build, not wildly expensive, tons of torque, and should go 100k miles. Get the Powermaster starter from Summit and you won't have hard starting problems. Use forged pistons instead of the KB's an put a blue bottle in the trunk if you need a little extra sometimes because of that Porche down the street. MHO

[jwinkler]

Can't speak to the stroker aspect, but I can vouch for the block kits from PAW. I've built two 351s, and both were, to the limit of our skill with snap gauges, micrometers, and plastigage, fully blueprinted blocks and cranks. The only surprise was when we ordered the second one, I didn't specify the overbore, so it came .060 instead of .030. If I were to do another motor, I'd go with them again.

[Dwight]

Jack, I love the idea of a 4.125" x 4.00" 351 SVO stroker. I read that the PAWs short block had chevy pistons and 360 Chryster rods. If so, what kind of pistons do they use? I think it had 4.06 bore on the 351 block, but I don't want to bore my block more than I have to. What info do you have on this motor?

[sllib]

JWinkler;
Now that's the kind of info I've been looking for. I've already made up my mind to build a 427W, so your experience with PAW is very helpful. I'll be out in LA next week for about a month and I hope to get up to PAW's store and actually see their kit and talk to the builder.

Dwight;
The salesman at PAW said that the rods with the kit were Mopar rods and if, as you say, the pistons (Keith Blacks) are Chevy pistons I don't see why I couldn't use a SB chevy rod; the length is almost the same. Maybe the big end won't fit the crank. When I go I'll have a list of questions and probably drive them crazy. At any rate, they said I could mix and match to get the build the way I want. "Speed costs money; how fast do you want to go?"
Thanks guys,
Bill Stradtner

[Jack21]

If I were building a 4x4, or something I needed a bunch of bottom and and mid range torque, and wanted to put it into a Windsor size and weight package, I'd go the 427W the way you've proposed. 4.03 x 4.17. That's almost an Oldsmobile motor. Gobs of torque right off idle, but out of breath by 4500RPM. Run some numbers on Dyno 2000 with this setup using 2.02/1.60 valves, and see what you get.

The 4.125 x 4.0 using SVO block and Cleveland 4v heads (2.19/1.73) makes for some interesting numbers in a Windsor sized package. See what PAW has to say about that.

Another approach might be a 429 block with Blue Thunder aluminum heads. With aluminum heads the weight penalty might not be so bad, and might work out to the better bargain $$$ wise. Run some numbers on this setup on Dyno 2000. It's a big 289, and winds like one. You're still making power at 7000 RPM. See what PAW prices that one out at.

Another sleeper. 455 Buick with T/A aluminum heads (and no name valve covers). Big bore, short stroke, winds like crazy. Has the distributor in front (like a Ford motor) and weighs about as much as a Windsor.