Help me Build my Engine

[captalny]

I would like some Engine Build Recommendations ((302 or 351w) for a Carburated small block crate motor.
I'd like to stay within the 320 -375 HP range and it must comply with N.Y. Emission standards.
I also need some Ignition, Distributor, carburater
Heads, Intake,Cam etc. suggestions?
I been leaning towards the E303 cam but I'm open to all suggestions.

What Transmission works the best in this HP Range?
Iis the stock T5 sufficient?
I'm will be building a Daily Driver and will be going with a non IRS rear with 3.55 gears.

Thanks for your Input.

[blykins]

Do you want to build it yourself? If so, that will be a different post. Otherwise, there are several crate motors that will fit your bill. Ford makes a great 351W crate motor with 385hp that would be great. Actually I drove a SPF cobra with that same motor in it Monday afternoon. Gobs of torque and power. Of course it will come pretty much complete, except for headers, carb, and a few other odds and ends. A T5 would be fine, but you might want the added strength of a Tremec 3550.

Hope this helps. If you plan to build your own, reply back, and I'll cut loose on that one too. I have some actual experience there that maybe can help.

Take care,

Brent

[Clois Harlan]

Two years ago I built a 302 w/ 335 HP. I used the E cam and 1.7 roller rockers from Crane, has a nice attitude and sound. I also used an Edelbrock Performer RPM manifold and Edelbrock 650 carb (you can get more hp from a Holley but for street use the edelbrock seems to require less maint). I had my heads milled, ported and polished and heavy duty Crane matching springs installed. I also used the MSD Ready to Run distributor and Coil (great combination) with a Crane true roller timing chain. I am running a 373:1 rear gears in and 8.8 Ford rearend. To make a long story shorter I was turning 12.82 at the St. Louis Run and Gun on Street tires and 93 octane pump gas. I could have done better with a little timing adj and slicks. My problem was when I I bought my trans I bought a 1983 Mustang GT 302 T-5 (this is probably the weakest version of the T-5 made). It broke at the drags after about 8 runs.

If I were building a SB again I would go for a late model 351 w/ all the same parts as above and a T-5 Tremic transmission. Very dependable and plenty fast.

[Campy]

Personally I would not go less than a 351. You can go Cleveland or Windsor. The Windsor parts are a little easier to come by than the Cleveland. Watch out or you can get yourself caught up in a heated debate about these two engines. Truth is the Cleveland has a bit more torque.
A great source for engines that may be close to you is the Engine Factory located in NJ. Check out thier website at www.enginefactory.com
I purchased a 351W crate engine from them a year ago and I can honestly say it has performed flawlessly for 2000 miles, so far. I have gotten on it hard quite a few times.
I decided to go with an Edlebrock Performer RPM manifold, Holley 700 CFM four bbl carb w/vacuum secondaries ( you can go double pumper as well ) and an MSD 6A ignition with the MSD billet distributor. The heads are World Products cast iron. Nice heads even though they're cast. The Engine Factory is now using Edlebrock Aluminum heads almost exclusively. They use a high output cam but they don’t specify the manufacturer. As far as a transmission, I have the new Ford super-duty 5 speed T5. I have been told that this is probably my weakest link. I know these trannys are rated at 330ft-lbs torque, so if you go with a stroked or higher performance rig than you should consider a 3550 or a Richmond. With the T5 I run a 3.5 rear and I have no problem smokin' them in 3 gears (if I really want to). In 5th gear at 70mph, the revs will drop to about 2K.

[ThePidler]

blykins:

Let 'er rip. I am currently building my own 351W stroker and would love to hear any tricks. Since so few of the guys do that, it's hard to get good pointers.

I'm leaning towards the Keith Craft 392 stroker kit, but the Dam* thing's $1500 for the rotating assembly. Probably looking at the Brodix Track I's , Victor Jr intake and a 750 Holley DP. Hydraulic Roller, (no IDEA which one), and backing it up with a TKOII or an AOD...(Don't throw nuttin'!)

or,

Do a milder stroker with Hypereutectec pistons and a cast crank, same tranny, heads, cam, intake and see what happens...saves me about a grand.

soo.....(oh yea, it'll be a REAL 351W too! Vintage '69 block)

[blykins]

Well, I'll tell you what I have, and you can decide. One of the main points when building a stroker motor is not to skimp on the bottom end. There is so much stress on the rods and main caps. I would suggest using a main girdle. It makes the blocks stronger than blocks with 4-bolt mains.

I'm going with a 427ci motor. Actually it's only 425ci, but I'm not telling anyone.

I'm using an Eagle ESP 4340 crankshaft. Fully nitrided, crossdrilled, and knife-edged. It's got a 4.100" stroke.

I'm also using Eagle H-beam 6.200" rods. They have been shotpeened and heat treated. Should be stout.

Unfortunately for big cube strokers, the compression height on the pistons is so small...and this makes the piston VERY expensive. A set of pistons for my engine is $800 with rings.

I plan on using Trickflow heads (2.02, 1.60). They won the flow-rate shoot-out in the Muscle Mustang and Fast Fords magazine. You can check Andy's website (www.cobralads.com) for an overrun on them. You might wanna watch some of Brodix's heads...the header mounting flange might be out of whack a little bit...in that case you would have to have custom header flanges made. The Trickflow heads have 61cc combustion chambers...which is kinda bad. Those pistons need big dishes to keep the CR down to 10:1.

I've went with the Victor Jr. intake too. It's setup for the RPM range that my engine operates in. I think mine makes the max hp at 6100, so the overlap is still good.

Hydraulic roller setups are always good. Less friction and less maintenance. Since I won't need to rev the piss out of my engine, I'm going with the hydraulic roller myself. My cam is a Crane cam.... 232,244, .563, .595 with a 112 lobe separation. My advice here is to buy all of your valvetrain stuff from the same manufacturer. Chances are everything will work together more smoothly.

Be sure and use a high volume oil pump, and a big honkin oil pan. I'm using a Melling HV pump, and a Canton 7qt road race pan. You need at least a 6qt pan, or that pump will suck it dry in a heartbeat.

I'm not sure with a 392, but you will probably need to machine the block so the rod bolts won't hit the cylinder skirts. This isn't a big deal....you just take a die grinder and cut them. I needed to cut 3/4x3/8 slots in my skirts for good clearances. The general rule of thumb is that you want .060" clearances between them. If you use a main girdle (which I do highly recommend), you'll probably need to grind on the oil pump fillet a little too....and maybe bang on the oil pan a little to get it to fit. One thing you'll learn when building a stroker is that nothing ever really fits like it is supposed to. All part of the fun though.

I think I spent $599 on my crank, $455 on my rods, and $760 on the pistons and rings.

So that's basically what I can share with you. I'd use good bottom-end stuff....a forged crank is always better for high revving, high hp motors...H-beam rods are stronger. (I actually did a finite element analysis on H-beam rods vs. I-beam rods in one of my graduate level engineering courses.) Go with the girdle...definitely.

You know you get most of your power from the compression ratio and the heads...so get some good heads...with close to 300cfm on the intake side. That should get you going.

I'm gonna have about $7500 in mine...but it's gonna be very stout.

If I can help you in any other way, please let me know. I've blueprinted all my journals and bearings with a bore micrometer (accurate to .0001")....and I can send you my spreadsheet with those figures on it if you wish.

Take care and good luck.

Brent

[ThePidler]

I've considered the Trick Flows myself, and I'll check on the header flanges. I'll also take your advice on the girdle.

So, I'm assuming that you didn't buy a rotating assembly, did you have it balanced? (That's probably a stupid question)

I would love to have your spreadsheet, send it to ThePidler@attbi.com

And beware, I have put you in my contacts list, hope you don't mind questions!

greg

[blykins]

I've asked my share of questions, so I don't care answering others if I can. My knowledge is limited however.

To answer your question, I haven't had it balanced yet, as I haven't bought my harmonic balancer and flywheel. Right now the engine is sitting on an engine stand, put together for a "dry fit", but it will have to be taken back apart again to clean it and have it balanced. I've been taking my time on it, and I enjoy working with them, so it doesn't bother me.

I'll send you my spreadsheet as soon as I send this reply. If you have any other questions or have any good tips for me, please let me know.

Brent

[two89w]

captalny......i have a 347 i spent about $20,000 australian on the engine to get 400hp(which i think is not great)but it is untuned and now has a detonated piston whilst tuning it,i would personaly go for a 351windsor or big block if you have the roon for it

[Dwight]

GO WITH THE 351 CRATE AND A 3550!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CHEAPER AND EASY!!!!!!!!!! MORE THAN ENOUGHT HP FOR THE STREET.

[meredithbagged]

i seen you guys talking about 351w i have a 80's 351 highoutput
like they put in the police cars four barrel factory holly im wanting to put a four speed to it but how do i know if i need a balanced flywheel or unbalanced ? i need help and fast thanks for any help

[trularin]

Gee Brent, that second post is a bit off in comparison to that two page book you had started,

Well, captalny, what can you do? Can you wrench?

[meredithbagged]

do ypou guys know what 351 w have to have a balanced flywheel?

[got snake?]

Hey Pidler and captalny,

I bought a long block from Chris at engine factory. Told him to upgrade heads to Vic jr. and put in forged dished pistons.(if i want to supercharger later.) Plugged in the number into Desktop dyno with my cam specs got 420hp/495tq.

Why Engine Factory? Chris had the wrong heads on my motor when I got it. It was past the warrenty date. Called him up and he paid to get it shipped back to him and replaced the heads and shipped it back. Had it back in about a week. THEY ROCK!

just me .02

Sid

[Shiloh4065]

I'd take a close look at Demon carbs. Call Don Gould at FBO systems in Beaverton Oregon (web site is www.4secondsflat.com). He is extremely knowledgeable about carbs and engine set up, and will give engine set up information over the phone to your engine builder .. or you. AFR heads also seem to be a good investment and hold their value, and the engines value, and perform!! Have fun.

[Clois Harlan]

Merridithbagged

I am shooting from the hip here but I think you have a neutral weighted flywheel. Go to http://summitracing.com and do a search for 351 flywheels and be sure.

Does the fly wheel that came off the engine have a weight on it?

Clois

[caman24]

blykins = brent

just curious with something you said "I would suggest using a main girdle. It makes the blocks stronger than blocks with 4-bolt mains."

I was always taught and told by engine builders the 4 bolt main is stronger

what do the guys on here think?

thanks

chris

[meredithbagged]

it is auto flywheel ?

[blykins]

Chris, it's been a while since I've made that post...looks like a couple years now. I've heard arguments each way since then. You know that each piston on the power stroke tries to drive the crank out the bottom of the block.....the girdle would distribute this force along all 5 caps instead of just 1. My girdle is .400" thick and covers all the caps....unlike some others I've seen that just hits the middle 3. In my mind, it would be stronger, but I've definitely been wrong before. It's the same prinicple behind a rearend girdle....the girdle ties in both differential bearing caps together. I guess no one's ever made a 4-bolt differential housing though....

Let's look at it like this...say one piston fires and produces 500 lbs (truly hypothetical situation) of force in a straight vector straight towards the main cap. (This couldn't be possible because the rods & pistons are at an angle to the crank, but this is just an example anyway.) In a 4-bolt block, that 500 pounds would be distributed over 4 bolts with probably a tensile strength of about 100ksi each. In a girdle'd block, the 500 pounds would only be distributed over 2 bolts (again probably 100ksi T.S.), but any deflection whatsoever would be taken up by the other 4 main caps as well, therefore reducing any strain on the 2 initially loaded bolts.

Maybe sometime I can whip up a 3D solid model of an engine block, do some finite testing and post the results.

I guess there could be arguments to each side. One good argument against it is that Nextel Cup engines would be using them if they were stouter than 4 bolt main blocks.....but then again it adds a little weight vs. a 4 bolt main cap.

Maybe we can get KC to chime in on this one...

[Clois Harlan]

MerridithBBagged you have a email