Horsepower vs Testosterone

[GR8RALLY]

Since I have a few of your trying to fiqure which rims are the best for 1/4 mile racing. Here's another tickler I feel as if I have been riding a roller coaster for the past 6 months trying to fiqure out how much horsepower is enough to get me to my "desired" 1/4 mile time of mid 11's! Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH horsepower for a streetable used Cobra. Let me clarify, I want(or do I need) approximately 600 horsepower to obtain my goal of mid 11's? Is it like injecting too much steroids and not working out? Would too much cause traction loss. Heres some of the grocery list: 351W stroker 427 mated to a TKO to a Ford 8.8 3.73. Pretty common combo. Would I be the wiser to focus my attention more on lighter internal engine componets (Crank,pistons,rods,heads,etc) and other items such as a carbon(lighter) driveshaft,electric water pump,electric fuel pump to eliminate robbing a HP from the engine. Round and round I go, HELP!

[FOCS]

Don't know about mid 11's.........I wanted hp and went with a 522. Dyno day is tomorrow

[Brian Dinsmore]

Here are the facts as I see them. My cobra has run 11.19 on slicks. Weight 2370# with me in it. Its a 289 and on the dyno the week before I ran this it was 355 h.p. at the rear wheels so figure arond 420 h.p. at the flywheel. Everyone talks these huge horsepower #'s 500/600/700. What do they really have? or better yet what do they really ....................need? Not as much as the "benchracers" say. If your car with you in it weighs say 2700# and you want to run mid 11's at say 118 mph you would need a "real" 345 h.p to the rear wheels.[410 at flywheel] The trick is in getting it to hook up and go. Seems like everyone wants all these torque monsters in these light cars. Why? I suppose it makes for a good smokeshow but it dosen't always translate into a fast car, just the allusion of one. Hope this helps answer your question. What was it anyway? Brian

[d boothe]

If you're spinnin', you ain't winnin'!!! I'd concentrate on hooking first...with 427 c.i. you'll have much more torque than you'll ever need. YOU SHOULD HAVE AT LEAST 400+ hp...with a good cam and heads, add AT LEAST another 100....that should be entertaining for awhile. dino

[Campy]

GR8RALLY,

I got these links off Andy Dunns Site. www.cobralads.com

Here are a couple links. Just enter your car's wieght and desired ET and it spits out an estimated RWHP. That "should" get you started.

First link

Second link

However:
When all is said and done, I have to agree with dboothe. Things are not as easy as plugging in a few numbers, clicking the calculate button and buying the engine you need. Low ET's start with the driver and end with the road. If you can't hook up, then all you're doing is making a lot of noise for the crowd.

[bmalone]

As mentioned, 400 or slightly above at the flywheel should get you in the 11's. No, you do not need 600 HP to ahcieve your goal. A 600 HP BB will run in the 10's (if you can hook up). If you are only into drag racing and want to run faster than 11's, you might consider the BB. All depends on what you want to do with the car. SB has its advantages and so does the BB.

Bill

[427sharpe]

ANY Cobra with a decent motor should get into the 11's. Certainly the motor you describe will, IF YOU GET THE POWER TO THE GROUND. I quarter pretty regularly, and have found the MT DOT race slick with lo pressure tends to work best for me. I use the standard 15" rim, a 15" wide slick with retaining screws and treat the tires with gum solvent. Launch mid range and hammer the throttle once you are hooked. I run a 9' with locker, usually 4.11's but sometimes 3.56 (my 'street' gear) and sometimes 4.56's. If you build the motor to deliver torque, it will be reliable and then you can play with the chassis to get the power to the ground. After awhile, you'll start looking for 10's!

[GR8RALLY]

Thanks everyone! Your advice and inputs are really APPRICIATED. Seems building a stout 450 HP motor will do the trick, as long as I can get it to "hook" up. Set my mine on buying a Superformance Cobra, weight with me in should be right at 2700 lbs. The car has the Ford IRS 8.8 rear. Anyone able to advise me on any upgrades or tricks, etc to assist the car in traction? Thanks again, Rodney!

[Jahred]

There is nothing wrong with big engines. The Ford Motorsport 514 will give you 650 or so out of the box and if you have a good chasis, it will handle that horsepower pretty well. Just over 10 seconds at 140 oughta be your target. Mostly aluminum, there is no real weight disadvantage either.

I would have no less in my Cobra!

[GR8RALLY]

Jarhed, heard there's an issue with the rods in that engine? Did you get your engine directly from Ford, and if so any problems?


____________
Rodney

[Back in Black]

But the current production has Eagle forged rods, ARP bolts.

So it depends on the vintage of the 514

As to 1/4 mile, dragracing, etc... it's better to have it (HP) and not need (or use ) it, than to need it and not have it.

[Jahred]

Interesting observation on the rods. As I posted somewhere before here, my first 514 only lasted 350 miles.

It blew a couple rods.

The problem however - long story, is that a large ford dealership in my area did final prep work and delivered it with most of the gauges fouled and the hoses crossed on the remote oil cooler. So the first six miles were a bit harsh. Bearings no doubt shot so not necessarily a rod issue.

FORD has upgraded rods between the two model years. I am a little concerned on RPMs.......and will continue to try to feel my way through how high those should go. I'm used to driving a porsche so cutting her off at 6000 RPM is not that natural..........gotta remember those high school days when 5400 was alot in the big v-8s..........

[Jahred]

Oh, here are some other thoughts.

If you do go with a 460 or 514 - I think the biggest issue is the rear end you use. I can't say I have ever driven a 514 with IRS, but the one guy I have spoken to that does says he can't get traction in 1-3. He thinks he is saying his engine is too powerfull.........I hear him saying his rear end won't hook up cause the axels are lifting.

On a recommendation from a guy in pittsburg who says he ran low 10's at 140 in the 514, I used Ford 9inch with Moser axels and a locker rear end. He used Detroit locker, I used Powertrac which is very quiet in the curves and seems fine.

Carrol Shelby beefed up the chasis on the 427SC. I think the 514 crate is a natural evolution - lightweight and powerfull.....and I don't think its too much - but I am not sure a person oughta be looking at the lightest chasis to go with it. I used Shell Valley. The chasis is very solid and I think a good fit for the 514.

[klayfish]

Nobody has mentioned the 302 yet. Does anyone out there have great success in the 1/4 with it? It's small, light, and higher revving, which may help with getting traction down.

I haven't dyno'd my car yet. Hoping to find a local one soon and give it a shot, so I know what my "baseline" is. My engine is a Jasper H.O. 302 w/Edelbrock Performer intake, 650 Edelbrock Carb and upgraded ignition. Anyone have a setup like that and have dyno'd it?

I fully admit I LOVE the BB sound. My mechanic has a Cobra with a 514 BB, and the sound is intoxicating. But to me, I think it might get to be too much over the long haul. Sometimes I like to just cruise in "stealth" mode, as much as a Cobra can be stealth. I don't need to shake the earth every time I hit the gas. Plus, I autocross, so the weight and balance are an issue I considered.

Steve

[bigmike]

Yes, HP=Testosterone.
Yes, I am compensating for something.
No, I will not consider reduction surgery!!!
BigMike

[MRITTER]

I took my twin-turbo FFR to the dyno a month ago to have a chip burned. With only 9 lbs boost she made 454 HP and 488 torque at the rear wheels, with STOCK heads. Ended up putting a set of Brodix aluminum heads on since then to help with the breathing. Haven't been back to the dyno but I feel certain the heads added 30-50 hp.

Feels really, really strong. It ran low 12s before the turbos, on drag radials, so I feel confident it will go low 10s, maybe even high 9s with the "twins".

I will post after I get to the track.

Later,

Mike

[Back in Black]

My 9 inch (Cobra being built at the factory right now) is Strange Engineering all the way, posi modular center section, 33 spline axles, *Street Pro* version

6 speed Richmond Over Drive (ROD) tranny, and Centerforce 2 clutch systems (the latest from Centerforce, they claim 90% better holding)

The West Coast Cobra has a very rugged space frame, and can handle big big HP.

I like the BB in a 427 Cobra, and the WCC needs one for weight balance (designed for it) and for the extra power, due to the fact that it weighs more than a standard cobra replica. The 514 with my Holley throttle body fuel injection should be a snappy performer (like snapping necks)

[got snake?]

A properly tuned 302 will get you into the 11's. Tuning is the key...or a big fat vVortech might do the trick!

[GR8RALLY]

Very funny BigMike! Back to what Klayfish was saying, maybe building a 331-347 high reving engine is the way to go? Lets think about it, still able to get big HP ratings, ensure the torque range is higher up the rpm bandwith and will be able to stick that traction down after all. Sorry Jahred, not a BB fan, so going that route is not an option for me at this point. Who knows, I still have time to ponder BB VS SB.( Lets not start that topic) But does anyone have a 331-347 engine and having good success with it in the mid 11's? Thanks everyone!!! ***Rodney***

[Great Asp]

GR8RALLY

To get into the 11's, I don't think you will be on drag radials. The reason I say that, is at the Run & Gun this last year, I helped Doug Reed the owner of the Superformance dealership in Chalmetta, LA, put drag radials on his SPF with an all aluminum 427 motor (it was a wicked motor too) to get better times at the 1/4 mile. I do not have the specifics, but I do not remember the drag radials making a big differance in Dennis Ohltoffs passes, or Doug Reeds.

Point is, you want low et's?, go get those wrinkle wall drag slicks with the soft compound rubber. I don't think you would want to run em on the street, but they will really hook up.

One item though, when you do get low 11's, or 10's, the standard roll bar may not pass your local track rules. Also, once you start hooking up, we used to say "when you play, you pay" Be ready for "the weakest link" to raise it's head.

I am not sure I would want to use true slicks (wrinkle wall) with 600 HP on a regular basis. But to say "Been there, done that"....yup. I'd frame the ticket! Hope when I do, I have a good 0-50 feet.....

Great Asp