SUPPORT OUR SPONSOR

Go Back   Club Cobra > Club Cobra Tech Areas > Shop Talk

Welcome to Club Cobra!  The World's largest non biased Shelby Cobra related site!

  •  » Representation from nearly all Cobra/Daytona/GT40 manufacturers
  •  » Help from all over the world for your questions
  •  » Build logs for you and all members
  •  » Blogs
  •  » Image Gallery
  •  » Many thousands of members and nearly 1 million posts! 

YES! I want to register an account for free right now!  p.s.: For registered members this ad will NOT show

MMG Superformance
Nevada Classics
Keith Craft Racing
Main Menu
Nevada Classics
Nevada Classics
MMG Superformance
Advertise at CC
Banner Ad Rates
MMG Superformance
MMG Superformance
MMG Superformance
December 2024
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31        

Kirkham Motorsports

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2002, 08:21 AM
excelguru's Avatar
(An All-Around Nice Guy)
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Camden, SC
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique Motorcars (sold)
Posts: 1,582
Not Ranked     
Question Long-term storage for assembled motor



Not Cobra related, but motor related...

Here's the situation: My dad restored a Jacobs ("Shakey-Jakey") radial engine for a Cessna 195. He won't be using the motor for about 3 years (while he restores the rest of the plane). He found a large metal tub to set the completed engine into. His plan was to submerge the engine in motor oil for the next three years, but since he needs about 220 gallons, this promises to be an expensive proposition. We're trying to figure out what other (cheaper) fluids would work well to preserve the motor. The fluid must have a very low or zero sulfur content. The fluid must not be harmful to steel, aluminum, cast magnesium, copper, or various gasket materials. Any ideas? Based on the prices of motor oil, it would cost about $400 or more to submerge the motor in oil.

Would diesel fuel work? What's the sulfur content of diesel?

Another option would be to place objects in the tub with the engine to displace additional oil. But the objects must be cheaper than the oil being displaced and concrete blocks are out of the question because of acid content, or something like that. (Hmm... maybe bags of sand or rock would work? Hmm...)

Sorry, for the weird question, but I figured you guys might have some good ideas.

Keith
__________________
Keith
Former Unique owner.

Last edited by excelguru; 04-29-2002 at 08:27 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2002, 08:42 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: niceville fl, fl
Cobra Make, Engine: Hunter #28; 396 Cleveland stroker; more than 495 HP; TKO 5 speed
Posts: 442
Not Ranked     
Default Storage

Keith:

I would get on the net or go to a source of Gov't mil-stds and look up equiptment storage.
The army has been storing stuff for years in a greasy goo called cosmoline? The stuff is great; in the 60's I bought enfield and springfield rifles as well as a jeep and a 2.5 ton half track from army surplus. All the items had been stored more than 20 yrs and after you cleaned them (a real chore) they worked and ran like new.
grover
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2002, 09:20 AM
R U YELLA's Avatar
Ed Digges
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Falls Church, VA
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham #328 w/ 390FE
Posts: 408
Not Ranked     
Default

What I would do is cover the engine in a thick bag and instead of using objects to displace the water, go to the Depot & buy some of that Insulation in a can. Put the engin in and spray that stuff under the bag. This should get the # of quarts down quite a bit. Or if you were any kind of son you build some sort of container for him!

Catch ya later
Ed
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2002, 09:37 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: niceville fl, fl
Cobra Make, Engine: Hunter #28; 396 Cleveland stroker; more than 495 HP; TKO 5 speed
Posts: 442
Not Ranked     
Default storge

Keith:
Just had my second cup of coffee.
Cosmoline is a old storage method.
Somehow I forgot of all my recent missle and high tech equipment storage experience.
Normally engines/missles etc are stored in a hermetically sealed drum or o-ringed box that has a desicate port(chemical moisture absorber). The boxes are purged and filled with dry nitrogen and every year the desicate is checked or replaced.
This keeps metal parts like new; only problems are when foams or plastics outgas and causes a chemical reaction with some component such as plastic encapsilated electronic parts or batteries. Any of these military base salvage monthly sales are likely to have surplus engine or large equipment containers being surplused. They have a sale every month here at Eglin AFB.
gn
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2002, 10:59 AM
Back in Black's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Olympia/Lacey, WA
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast. 514 / 6 speed Richmond overdrive
Posts: 1,981
Not Ranked     
Lightbulb Cosmoline is available in aerosol cans!

You can just spray it on the motor parts you want to protect, and fill the inside of the motor with oil as much as possible. To clean off, use a soft brush, and lacquer thinner or a good degreaser.

THEN, you MUST use several thicknesses of plastic bags, sealed with quality packing tape,....the clear food grade type of bag, AND include several LARGE packs of dessicants inside. Hydrosorbent is the best dessicant (I sell it on line) Looks like you need about 6 of the 40 gram Hydrosorbent units (reusable, have moisture indicators, it turns pink to indicate the dessicant is full,..this is why you want to use a clear bag, so you can monitor this)

You also must store the item in a heated environment. Cold makes rust, due to condensation.
__________________
James Madison, father of the Constitution, said, "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." He also said, "No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare..."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.standdown.net/index.htm
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2002, 12:55 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Birmingham UK, UK
Cobra Make, Engine: AK Cobra, Jag based Lexus 1UZFE Engine and box
Posts: 80
Not Ranked     
Default

Guys forget all about soaking in engine oil etc this is what you do. Get online and research Vapour Corrosion Inhibitors, its what all the auto manufacturers use. There are a number of companies which supply VCI coated or impregnated bags large enough for your engine, "Zerust" being one.

My company based in the UK, Carrs Paper, supplies VCI paper and laminates to most of the major auto and auto component companies throughout the world but as yet we dont make the bags...however watch this space. We also supply Rolls Royce jet engines with their VCI protection so we have experience in the aero industry.

If the bags are good enough for the US army to mothball complete tanks in and not worry about corrosion, even in the gun barrels, storing an engine in a decent weather proof environment like a garage should be a piece of cake.

If all else fails let me know and I'll dig out my info at work and point you in the direction of a supplier/stockist.

FYI most of the VCI film we supply goes to companies wrapping bare steel coils which are then shipped overseas without any rusting problems.

What could be easier than putting the engine in a plastic bag..and when the time comes to get it out theres absolutely no cleaning off required !!

Cheers,

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2002, 02:22 PM
Back in Black's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Olympia/Lacey, WA
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast. 514 / 6 speed Richmond overdrive
Posts: 1,981
Not Ranked     
Thumbs up VCI (vapor rust inhibitor) is great stuff...

But I would also include dessicant packs just to be on the safe side. This covers both bases. (active inhibitor & no moisture)
__________________
James Madison, father of the Constitution, said, "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." He also said, "No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare..."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.standdown.net/index.htm
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2002, 02:34 PM
DAVID GAGNARD's Avatar
Senior Club Cobra Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: MARKSVILLE,LA.,,
Posts: 3,235
Not Ranked     
Default

Keith;

I'll check with my cousin when he gets in from work later this week (works away,due in this week), he is FFA certified in both piston engine and turbine (jet engine). Has worked in the field rebuilding these same type engines as well as jet engines since he was 18 years old and is now approaching 60 and still does it for a living. He should know what the recommendations are for long term storage......

David
__________________
DAVID GAGNARD
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2002, 03:06 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: LI, NY
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA / nascar side oiler
Posts: 211
Not Ranked     
Default

I think you might find this to be usefull . BOESHEILD T - 9 Avaliable at a better boating store .(spray can ) It was developed by the Boeing Co, for lubrication andprotection of aircraft components .Boesheild is a combination of solvents, lubricants , and waxes designed to penetration , moisture displacement , lubrication and protection . Dries to a thin waxy film that clings to metal for months.safe on paints plastics , and vinyls .
I was told to use it on my boat electric exsposed connections to keep out corrosion . Company # 1-800-962-1732
The inside of the engine I would put oil in the cylinders etc.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2002, 05:07 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Birmingham UK, UK
Cobra Make, Engine: AK Cobra, Jag based Lexus 1UZFE Engine and box
Posts: 80
Not Ranked     
Default

VCI bags supplier www.grofitplastics.com

They have distributors in US also.

Cheers,

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2002, 05:31 AM
excelguru's Avatar
(An All-Around Nice Guy)
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Camden, SC
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique Motorcars (sold)
Posts: 1,582
Not Ranked     
Default

Hey guys,

Wow. Thanks for all the great responses. I've emailed a link for this page to my dad so he can review and investigate all the ideas at his liesure. It sounds like we have a few additional options besides drowning it in oil. I knew this was the best place to post such a question. Thanks again!

Keith
__________________
Keith
Former Unique owner.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2002, 07:07 AM
wilf leek's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Leicester, UK
Cobra Make, Engine: Crendon, windsor 408 stroker, tremec. Also GSX008
Posts: 1,406
Not Ranked     
Default

Keith - I can't suggest anything about your storage requirements, but I just wanted to say WOW - WHAT A GREAT LOOKING MOTOR!

Lets hope some of that attention to detail and engineering prowess rubbed off from Father to Son - is your car going to look that good as well?

Wilf
__________________
Wilf
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2002, 07:22 AM
excelguru's Avatar
(An All-Around Nice Guy)
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Camden, SC
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique Motorcars (sold)
Posts: 1,582
Not Ranked     
Default

Wilf,

Thanks for the compliments. It's certainly his pride and joy. He really enjoys restoring the plane. You should see the engine in person. It's HUGE!

Yea, I'm notoriously anal about details. Just ask my wife, she'll tell ya!

Keith
__________________
Keith
Former Unique owner.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2002, 10:05 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Houston, Tx
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique FIA
Posts: 2,064
Not Ranked     
Exclamation

Kieth,
Go to your nearest A&P school and get a copy of the "43-13". this is a manual of std practices as approved by the FAA. In it I think you will find the info on how to preseve your Shaky Jake. my copy is at work. I will look at it tomorrow and update. As I remember it, the proscess involves a special presevitive oil, plastic inserts in the sparkplug holes that are filled with "desicant" material (moisture absorbing material) , and finally sealed in a bag which has several cloth bags filled with desicant.
Take the time to learn how to do it right.
BTW That is the very first aircraft engine I ever built. It is amazing. we tore one down and built it back up for a school project.....keep in mind this eng had been messed with by countless students.(including people's initials carved in the piston domes) we hung it in the test cell and fired it up. It was just awesome to see the fire billow out the collector ring as she spuddered and coughed to life. (no sound compares to a cold radial struggling to start) As old and abused as that engine was, it still pulled rated manifold pressure!!!
The generation of people that designed those engines was a very special breed. There will allways be a special place in my heart for that beast.
Steven

Last edited by Steve R; 05-02-2002 at 11:10 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2002, 10:54 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Houston, Tx
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique FIA
Posts: 2,064
Not Ranked     
Default

here it is on pdf format from the FAA....
Http://av-info.faa.gov/dst/43-13/43.13-1b.pdf
I tried to find specific info. this format is tedious and I must go to bed. good luck. I am pretty sure it is in chap 6.
if I can't find it in the 43-13, It is probably in the powerplant book.
I could not find that one online. I will look in my library tomorrow.
Steven

Last edited by Steve R; 05-02-2002 at 11:06 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2002, 04:50 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Houston, Tx
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique FIA
Posts: 2,064
Not Ranked     
Default

unable to locate my powerplant book. will update info if I find it.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2002, 07:34 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Houston, Tx
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique FIA
Posts: 2,064
Not Ranked     
Default

found it. AC 65-12A pg 386. could not find this book online in pdf. go to your local A&P school and purchase it....it is a must have for a guy like your dad.

Last edited by Steve R; 05-05-2002 at 09:21 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2002, 05:59 AM
excelguru's Avatar
(An All-Around Nice Guy)
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Camden, SC
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique Motorcars (sold)
Posts: 1,582
Not Ranked     
Default

I spoke with my dad this weekend. He has that book (he has an A&P license). He felt that the information was more suited towards storing parts as opposed to storing an assembled engine. Nonetheless, the information may still prove useful. He's looking into it. He's also gonna look into some of the other suggestions posted here. He said that the information you guys provided has provided some new possibilities that might (a) save money and (b) work better.

Dad was very impressed with the level of information you guys provided. This information would have taken him a great deal of time to find elsewhere, if he could find it at all. A thousand thanks, guys!

Keith
__________________
Keith
Former Unique owner.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2002, 08:08 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Houston, Tx
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique FIA
Posts: 2,064
Not Ranked     
Default

has he thought of a sealed container purged with dry nitrogen? lets see some pictures of the rest of the plane
Steven
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2002, 04:04 PM
Flyin_Freddie's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Germantown, TN,
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance #770, Stroked 351W (393 cubes) w/ Tremec TKO-600, 3.27 Torsen locker, 'Hi-Tech' Blue w/ White Stripes, Wilwoods, Bilstein coil overs...and a big ear-to-ear grin!
Posts: 1,147
Not Ranked     
Default Call the Experimental Aircraft Association...

..in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, and ask them! They have several engines that have been 'pickeled' for long term storage that are in hangars, and not in plastic bags, cosmoline coated and so on. They're on the nose, or wings, of aircraft on display in the Legends of Flight hangar. Someone connected with EAA should be able to give you specific instructions regarding long term storage of aircraft engines.

My EAA number is 447601, feel free to tell them I said to call them. Their number is 920-426-4800, and their website is http://www.eaa.org

Check 'em out....they have first hand knowledge and are more than willing to help.

Wow...Cessna 195, what a beautiful airplane. There's one at Colonial Glider Port just down the road from my office....polished aluminum with cream, yellow, and black trim. Stunningly beautiful! I want to see your Dad's, Keith....!
__________________
Flyin_Freddie
"An opinion on everything...an expert at nothin'!"
WARNING: The opinions expressed herein do not necessarily represent those of the management, editors, or owners. We welcome differing opinions, and recognize our responsibility to offer differing views. May cause drowsiness, restlessness, or irritability. Do not operate heavy machinery while using this product. Void in Alaska, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico, or where prohibited, licensed, or regulated by law. We reserve the right to limit quantities. Offer good while supplies last. No substitutions allowed. Please observe posted speed limits. Professional driver on closed course. Do not try this at home. Please wear your seatbelt at all times. Close cover before striking. Use at own risk. Please dispose of properly. Drink responsibly. Prolonged exposure to vapors has been shown to cause cancer in laboratory animals. Do not use this product of you are pregnant, or plan on becoming pregnant. Intentional misuse by deliberately concentrating and inhaling fumes can be dangerous. Always wear safety glasses. In case of eye contact, flush with water and seek immediate medical attention. For occasional use only as directed. Avoid prolonged skin contact. Discontinue use if rash develops. If symptoms persist for more than three days, seek professional medical attention. Hearing protection required beyond this point. Danger: Hot surfaces. Use as directed. Proceed at own risk. Caution: Filling may be hot. Please don't litter. Actual results may vary. It is a violation of Federal Law to use this product in a manner other than as intended. Do not use this product if you have an enlarged prostate, or have difficulty urinating.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
The representations expressed are the representations and opinions of the clubcobra.com forum members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and viewpoints of the site owners, moderators, Shelby American, any other replica manufacturer, Ford Motor Company. This website has been planned and developed by clubcobra.com and its forum members and should not be construed as being endorsed by Ford Motor Company, or Shelby American or any other manufacturer unless expressly noted by that entity. "Cobra" and the Cobra logo are registered trademarks for Ford Motor Co., Inc. clubcobra.com forum members agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). Thank you for visiting clubcobra.com. For full policy documentation refer to the following link: CC Policy