351C Oil pan replacement

[rdorman]

I knew I was going to have to do this eventually but I didn't think this would be the way! 351Cleveland engine, Unique chassis.

Yesterday the stock oil pan hit a man hole cover and ripped a small gash in the pan. The oil pressure started to drop and the car was shut down. I ordered a pan from Armando's oil pans and it will be here end of next week. Only 6.75 inches deep for a 7 quart pan!

My question is two fold. First, there is nothing under the pan in so far as suspension, exhaust, nothing. Does this pan simply need removed and replaced with out haveing to deal with the transmission? What about seals? Any tips?

While I have the pan off I am thinking I should check the pump to see if it picked up and debris. Any advice here? Also I thought I would remove the #1 main cap and look for bearing damage. How is this done? What about seals?

Any help/advice you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Rick

[B L & sons]

Rick
I would not think there would be any problems I'm sure you plan to replace gaskets and seals.If your new oil pan is any different from the old one you may have to change your oil pick up to work right with the new pan.
hope this helps

good luck
Bill

[blykins]

Hey Rick,

I'm not familiar with the Cleveland blocks, but I know you could do it pretty easily on a Windsor motor. So if it's the same, you're in luck. You should be able to just drop the pan...on a Windsor, I think there are about 24 bolts. Some are in the front cover, while the majority are in the block itself. You should be able to get the oil pan off without messing with the tranny. In the worst case, you would just have to take off the inspection plate on the bellhousing if it has one. But you probably won't even have to do that much.

Depending on how long the motor has been together, I wouldn't worry about changing the rear main seal. It should be fine on a not-too-old rebuild. Just use your own discretion on the oil pan gasket. Depending on what they used to put it on with, it may be hopeless to get it off without tearing it up.

While you're in there, you should be able to check the oil pump. It's probably not necessary, but you should be your own judge. I don't know if you'll have to pull the distributor or not. Like I said, I've never worked on a Cleveland motor, so I'm not an expert here. Maybe some of the other gearheads can help out. When you take the oil pump and pickup out, the oil pump drive will most likely want to come with it. On a Windsor motor, there is a little flange that keeps the oil drive from coming up towards the carb when you pull the distributor, but nothing keeps it from falling out the bottom when you pull the pump out. So I assume a Cleveland is the same. So be prepared to fool with all that crap too. If you pull the distributor, make sure and mark where the rotor was pointing so you can get the timing back to where it was initially.

If you have a main girdle, forget about checking one main bearing. You'd have to take the girdle off to even check one of them. I guess it wouldn't hurt to take a cap off to check the bearing. You can pull it off, and then clean it with lacquer thinner to really see any wear marks. Make sure it's torqued back to the correct torque when you replace it.

Hope this helps you some. I'm sure the other more experienced members can add to my suggestions.

Take care,

Brent

[Rolling Thunder]

Hey Rick!

This didn't happen on the way back from the OCC meeting did it? Sorry to hear it happened. Luckily it's an easy fix.

I had the pan off my Cleveland a couple months back in order to install a windage tray - nothing to it.

No issues with the tranny at all, nor other obstacles. All you have to do is remove the bolts down each side and lower the pan (slight tug to break the seal may be necessary). Install is reverse.

Some things to look for / keep in mind however:

The forward-most and rear-most bolts on each side (the four corners) were slightly larger than all the others on mine. Check this while removeing and if this is the case with yours as well, be sure to set them aside separate from the rest so they go back in in the correct locations.

Be sure to remove ALL the old gasket and seal material from both mating surfaces - pan and block. A razor blade scraper works fine, as would a small gasket scraper. Don't re-use the old gasket, but be sure to specify a Cleveland gasket when getting your replacement. It will come in four pieces. Look closely at the two long side gaskets, they are different and are specific to each side of the pan. The whole job isn't really difficult to do, but it can be a pain trying to do it by yourself on the floor under the car.

If you choose to pull a main cap, torque the bolts to 100-105 ft lbs on re-installation.

Sorry, but I don't know enough (yet) about the oil pump to give you any suggestions.

As long as you have the pan off, you might want to consider installing a windage tray (assuming there is not already one there). It would mean the car sitting for another week or so waiting for the tray to arrive, but they are easy to put in, especially if the oil pan is already off, and are a rather inexpensive means of gaining 5-10 HP.

Good Luck,

Keith

P.S. Any info on those cam specs? Thanks

[rdorman]

Thanks for the info so far folks!

Sorry I have not got the cam specs to you as of yet Rolling Thunder. I 'think' it is the m-6250-a341 cam. Which is listed on the Ford motorsports catalog as:

Intake events open 0 degrees BTC, closed 34 degrees ABC, Exhaust events 49 degrees BBC, closed 5 degrees BTC, Duration intake 292 or 214 degrees, exhaust 302 or 224 degrees, Lift lobe .295 I or .310 E, Valve .510 I or .536 E, Lobe center 107 degrees, exhaust 117 degrees.

But, I will double check. If this is the cam it looks like a pretty strong midrange type cam. I would think peak HP in this cam would come on in the 5500 - 6000 range. Check out http://stangstable.com/ for some interesting 351C setups. Judging by the power they are getting in the differences between my engine and some of theirs, I would say the 385HP figure I was quoted was correct with and addition 40 not hard to get.

The pan come with a windage tray, scraper etc. Check out Armondo's Oil Pans. Very nice.

Thanks for the main caps torque settings, I do want to pull a cap off and take a look.

Now if some knows the ins and outs of of the oil pump R&R I will be in! I have done this a number of times but it has been SO many years that I want to double check myself!

Thanks again

[Jack21]

$.25 more.

This is a straight remove and replace, or it oughta be.

If the oil pump appears to have been damaged, replacement is two bolts. You will have to remove the distributor, and re-install it. For the $30 - $40 for a new pump, it's not a big deal. But you do have to match the pump pickup with the new pan.

There is no reason to pull a main cap off because you wacked a pan and had the good sense to shut the engine down. however, since you have tha pan out, and you're curious, inspect a main and a rod or two for abnormal wear.

On reassembly, use contact adhesive or weatherstrip adhesive on one side of the pan gasket, and non-moly wheel bearing grease on the other. Now, you can drop the pan for inspection and cleaning anytime, and button it back up with the same re-usable gasket.

[rdorman]

Thanks for the help! The car was back on the road last Friday! I did not have to remove or move a single item on the car. The pan from Armandos arrived as promised and it a very nice piece and I picked up about 2+ inches of clearence at the pan. No apparent engine damage, runs great.

BTB Rolling Thunder, that is the cam.