SB combo recommendations....

[CCX33911]

Looking for some advise on a future SB build for a GT40. Here are the basic requirements:
1.) Light weight therefore Aluminum block
2.) Based on 351W family
3.) Alum. heads
4.) Must run well on 93 octane thus ~10.5:1 compression ratio max.
5.) Most useable HP for ~$10k

What is the best combination of parts to give me the highest reliable HP on pump gas and ~$10k?

Thanks


Based on this I assume that I would go with the biggest bore permitted in the selected block. Select a stroker crank that can provide reliable HP/RPM. I would assume some use of NASCAR parts would be a good idea; however, I would guess building a detuned Winston Cup motor would blow my budget. What are the really expensive items in a Winston Cup motor?

[Junket]

Hello G Giggs give muselemotorsports.com site a look they deal in used Nascar parts and motor if nothing else it will give you some ideas
Ken

[Andy Dunn]

How about a Bennet Racing 382(383)

turn to page 92 of the august Fast Fords and Muscle Mustangs. Bennet offers the Sportsman 382 for $9,995

575HP
Pump Gas
TrickFlow Twisted Wedge with a stage 3 port
Choose TF EFI or Edelbrock Carb Intake
Canton Oil Pan
Custom Hydraulic Roller Camshaft
Intake to Pan off Dyno

http://www.bennettracing.com/


or How about a 383/408/418

turn to page 28 of the august Fast Fords and Muscle Mustangs.
D&D Motorsports offers a 383/408/418 long block for $5,695

525HP
HV Oil Pump
Double Roller
Custom Cam
Gaskets
AFR Heads
Balancer
Flywheel
Lifters
Rockers
Main Support
ARP Fasteners

I believe that to finish it you would need Oil Pan, Intake, Carb, Water Pump.

http://www.dndmotorsports.com/general/main.asp

I don't know anything about either company, their ads just caught my eye since I am am also building the lesser known 383w.

hope this info is useful

Here are a few others sites you might want to check out

http://www.coasthigh.com/Crate_Motors/crate_home.htm
http://www.dssracing.com/
http://www.enginefactory.com/351W.htm
http://www.ford-power.com/
http://www.golensengineservice.com/
http://www.indymustang.stangnet.com/custom.html
http://www.jcperformance.com/
http://www.indymustang.stangnet.com/custom.html
http://www.panhandleperformance.com/build.html
http://www.speedomotive.com/Assembled%20Engines.htm



Andy

[Mr.Fixit]

That aluminum block is a big chunk of the budget when you only have $10 grand to play with. The forged aftermarket crankshaft, and con rods, and block machining will cost you. The roller cam, lifters, roller rockers, stud girdles, main and head studs, windage tray, head work, all add up. Don't forget the cost of the aluminum flywheel, pressure plate, disk, and scattershield. The big items are costly, but the little pieces add up quickly too.

[CCX33911]

I am assuming this combo would make ~~550 HP. I am trying to get a feel for which head are best for this power level (AFR 205????) Also what components have better durability. For example which steel cranks, connecting rods, etc. tend to be the best.

Thanks

[Andy Dunn]

Hey G.

I missed your number 1 requirement which was the aluminum block so please notes that the engines listed were regular block. I think you can can meet your budget with the aluminum block. It may be a little tricky if you start getting into maximum bore size pistons since I would assume those have to be custom made.

Here is a site that carries a lot of the ford aluminum blocks


Right off the bat you are starting at $3300, so it will be close. You could go with M-6010-Z351 which has a 9.5" deck height and then you could technically build all the way out to a 454. I would try to find combos that use stadard crankshaft lengths so you can then get a forged crank which can be appropriate for this style of performance engine.

Here is a nice little java calculator to find the bore and stroke combo you are seeking
http://www.prestage.com/carmath/calc_cid.asp

Let's say you wanted the maximum bore size at 4.155. With 2.75" main journals, you can find 3.5, 3.75 and 4.0 forged cranks readily available. These combos would make

3.50" - 379.66ci
3.75" - 406.77ci
4.00" - 433.89ci

I tend to think that if you go down the non-standard bore and non-standard piston size road, you are probably going to end up in the $15k+ range. I think if you stick to the 030 040 060 stroker kits available, you will have a lot easier time sticking with the $10k cap on the budget. With the aluminum block, 060 pistons are not a worry.

Here are some additional examples to think about. Here is a speedomotive 408. the basic price is $1400.
http://www.speedomotive.com/ford_351...8w_stroker.htm

I would upgrade the pistons to forged for $345. Notice they offer up to 060 with this kit. I would also upgrade to forged crank and my guess is that is $300-$500 more. These combos at 4.06 would produce

3.50" - 362.49ci
3.75" - 388.39ci
4.00" - 414.28ci

probe industry aka Coast High Performance carries several forged cranks and forged pistons for the 351. scat also carries several.
http://www.probeindustries.com
http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/smblc...ingkits02.html

I think most of the components on a Winston cup engine are high quality and so they add up fast. Like the aluminum block above..add that to a set of yates heads you are you over $6000 and you only have 2 of the parts necessary to finish the engine. Add a forged crank and we are now close to $7000. Add a Race Demon Carb and its $8000 and there is still no rotating assembly

You might consider a regular block to stay under $10k. I think it is a good idea to go with the forged pistons, rods and crank if you want an engine that revs 7k+. I personally think the two most important parts of an engine are cam and heads. The AFR 205s are excellent heads...be aware that the exhaust ports are raised .125" higher than stock.
http://www.airflowresearch.com/pages/205sbf_rh.htm

Here are my favorite 10.5:1 cam grinds. Cams preferences are somewhat subjective. I like higher HP cams over low rev TQ cams. Many cobra owners prefer the opposite. It depends what your goals are and where you plan on driving the most.

CRANE
448601 246 254 .579 .598 108 112
448511 254 262 .599 .599 105 115
448031 244 252 .619 .640 105 115
449761 232 244 .563 .595 107 117
449561 232 240 .563 .584 107 117
449571 244 256 .595 .595 107 117
449581 244 256 .595 .595 105 115
449811 236 244 .574 .594 109 119

COMP
35-522-8 232 240 .565 .574 112
35-773-8 254 260 .621 .627 110
35-772-8 248 254 .614 .621 110
31-641-5 265 276 .600 .593 106
31-609-5 250 260 .568 .592 106
31-332-5 260 260 .565 .565 110

LUNATI
51018LUN 242 252 .560 .576 110 106
51019LUN 248 256 .602 .602 108 104
51021LUN 248 258 .593 .624 108 104

TRICKFLOW
TFS-51402002 236 248 .574 .594 110 105

ISKY
371284/294 284 294 .544 .573 110

CROWER
15445 254 260 .597 .547 110


hope this info is useful


Andy

[agro1]

I would give the guys at Coast High Performance (www.coasthigh.com) a call and discuss your build with them. All aluminum block would be nice, but a bit pricy and wouldn't save that much weight over a 351 stroker, when your talking hp figures that high, a couple hundred lbs will really not make that much difference. Coast is building me 351 stroked to 427, Edel Victor CNC ported heads, intake ported to match, upgraded SFI approved dampners, Probe flat top pistons, running on 100 octane w/12:3.1 compression - approx 600 hp. Yes the octane and compression wil be an issue but hp costs $$ and it sure as hell ain't gonna be a daily driver. Out the door for around $10,000. Talk to Tim or shoot me an email and I'll fax you my build sheet.

NEVER LIFT

[Jack21]

Just reading a article in (I think) Road & Track on new Saleen S7. $395,000 street machine with a 351W based 427 in it. Makes 525 HP on pump gas, normally aspirated, and does in excess of 200 MPH. Might drop in on Saleen for some spec's on their engine. Looks like straight SVO parts bin stuff. Aluminum block, heads, etc.

The SVO aluminum block weighs 120 pounds. The iron block weighs 195 pounds. Big bucks for very little weight savings. Dart is supposed to have a new Windsor block out that does for Fords what aftermarket blocks have done for Chevies.

[CCX33911]

Yes the dart block will allow for up to a 4.185 bore and weigh just over 200 lbs (Same as my FE ). Would allow for a 440 CI with a 4.00" crank. I was wondering the specs of the Saleen motor, but have not seen much. I wonder if they would tell you anything.

[grumpy]

CCX,
Better start lookin for a 5DS25 ZedF to put behind that kind o puppy, since you want 500 plus HP. Took me a good part of two years and hard search'n, got a lot o spares while I was at it. You can still find em under 5000k used, but you'll have to learn the rebuilding side of it since the pros get 2-4k just to go thru one and brig it up to specs.
grumpy

[CCX33911]

Quaife is coming out with a new model 6 speed including a large price reduction. The list will be $9750 less 20% if ordered before November release date. The official word is not out but the GTD Club visited Quaife and found out the scope. You can see photos of the unit here:
http://www.gtd40club.co.uk/images/Qu...aife_visit.htm


I expect this will go along way to running higher HP/Torque motors in GT40's.

[Jack21]

Article is in Aug '02 Motor Trend. 550 HP on pump gas.

Now play with some numbers on Dyno 2000, Andy Dunn is good at this. Using a 440 CI Dart Windsor block motor, hydraulic roller cam, and Cleveland 4V heads (or Blue Thunder aluminum Cleveland heads).

What kind of transaxle would you use in something like this???

[CCX33911]

Originally posted by Jack21
Article is in Aug '02 Motor Trend. 550 HP on pump gas.

What kind of transaxle would you use in something like this???

The Quaife mentioned in my post just above.