Road Race Oil Pan

MJN · #1 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 08:42 AM

OK I've given up trying to get my Canton pan to seal to the block and I'm looking for inputs on either a better way to seal the pan or a reccommendation on a good baffled (road race) pan for a Windsor motor that does have an accurate pan rail. The pan rail on the Canton pan does not even come close to fitting the rear main cap in the corner where the main cap and block meet. There is about an 1/8" gap right in the corner with the pan end seal in place. I have tried adding RTV to either side of the end seal before assembling and it works for a while but then will start seeping. Not a big leak but it will leave a drop or two on the garage floor. I like the Canton pan because it has a convenient bung to take the oil temperature sender but I'm ready to toss it in the trash at this point.

So, what to do? Anybody had similar problems? Suggested fixes? Are there different end seals? Maybe I have the wrong end seal. How about a reccomendation for a different pan? Anybody got a pan they want to sell? I want to fix this once and for all before next springtime.

ERA535 · #2 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 08:51 AM

MJN-

Before you toss the Canton, could you be experiencing the result of too much crankcase pressure?

As a last resort - and some say a horsepower increasing benefit - you may want to install a vacuum pump to create negative pressure in the crank case.

At the very least make sure that you have enough in the way of crank case breathers.

Mr.Fixit · #3 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 09:00 AM

You may be experiencing undue crankcase pressure with that blower setup. I have not yet seen the problem you are describing with canton pans, their problem usually lies directly above the starter motor. Does the arc of the pan match that of the rear main cap?

MJN · #4 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 09:05 AM

Bit of a long story but yes I have put a crank case breather in the oil fill on the valve cover. I got this tip from another blown Windsor owner and it has helped. A little more info....When I bought the pan I had to significantly modify the crank scraper that is welded in the side of the pan to clear my stud girdle before I realized that the pan just didn't fit the block. So at that point there was no way that I was going to be able to return it.

There really is a very large gap at the corner of the seal (1/8") that obviously shouldn't be there and I was wondering if the pan really is that bad or if maybe there is a different seal that I should be using. The block is a late model roller cam block with the one piece rear main seal.

I had thought of building up the corners of the pan with weld and trying to file it to fit better but that would be hit-or-miss at best.

Mr.Fixit · #5 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 09:18 AM

There's always a little gap where the rubber end seals meet the pan rail seals. A blob of silicone where the rubber seal overhangs the pan rail seals is the assembly directions. Unless the problem you have is not the usual, can you post a pic so we all can see?

MJN · #6 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 09:31 AM

I don't think I can get a good picture with the engine in the car the bell housing and block plate will be in the way. I'll try to post a sketch of what I'm talking about in a little while... Gotta figure out the best way of getting a sketch onto a post.

coyled · #7 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 09:39 AM

Mike, call canton and ask them if you have the correct seal and the correct pan. Also, on those corners use a sealing agent called "the right stuff". It will work better than any silicone. You may also need more or better breathers to get rid of the crank case breather. I spent months getting mine to the point where the dipstrick tube would not be up when I opend the hood. Mine always has a small leak somewhere, I have given up on having a totaly leak free cobra. synthetic leaks more too. Scott

scottj · #8 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 09:41 AM

I don't use any end seals or gaskets on the pan, just silicone.

Scott

Mr.Fixit · #9 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 10:00 AM

"the right stuff" is great. I used it as a gasket replacement on a Willy's motor I had, damn near destroyed the valve cover trying to remove it later. Much better than regular silicone, more expensive too.

MJN · #10 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 10:58 AM

So where can I find the "right stuff"? Sounds like that's worth a shot. Who makes it?

Anyway I did make up a couple of sketches that kind of show what I'm up against. The top picture shows what I should have with the gasket filling the gap and bottom shows what I've got with about an 1/8" gap in the corner. I have a one piece silicone gasket and also the Fel Pro set with the seperate end seals and they both produce this gap.

Roscoe · #11 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 11:39 AM

Have you tried one of the one piece pan gaskets? I believe Summit has them in their catalog.

Roscoe

Mr.Fixit · #12 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 11:46 AM

Nice drawing! "the right stuff" is made by permatex I believe, but it comes in a can that looks like your wife's can of hair mousse. Aerisolized silicone stuff, adheres very well. All the oil pans I have put on require a blob of silicone at the corners, it's kinda a judement call if the gap on your pan is too big, 1/8" doesn't sound out of the ordinary.

scottj · #13 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 12:09 PM

Canton says not to use the one peice. They say their pans are designed to use the 4-piece set or no gasket and just silicone. Nothing against the Right Stuff, I just don't have any experience with it.

Without the end seals the 1/8" gap really becomes a non-issue, just fill the whole end seal area with sealer.

MJN · #14 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 12:47 PM

OK. So I'll take off the 1 piece gasket that is on there right now, which I did get from Summit by the way. Nice gasket, shame it didn't work. And I'll try remounting the pan with just RTV or maybe the "Right Stuff" if I can find it. If the "Right Stuff" is adhesive then it would probably work with the one piece seal. I could stick the gasket to the pan with it and then mount that to the block. That's the problem, there's too many options when it comes to not using the gasket by itself. I just want to do it one more time and not have to worry about it for a while.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Lubrecon · #15 (**permalink**) 10-12-2002, 08:39 PM

Mike:

I've got a Coast High 351W stroked to 408 with a Canton pan. Same problem, leaks at the back, and now the front. Pan is not square with the fly wheel cover and the rib radius on the pan runs diagonally(sp) across the seal in the main cap, and extrudes one side of the seal out of the main cap groove. Have had the pan off 5 times, tried everything, even the Summit one piece, no luck. However, Fel Pro has an pan gasket #1827 that is metal. But when I got it, the second hole on the right side rail did not match up, so I went with Fel Pro FP 1810. Front's still leaking, but it may be something else, back still extrudes the seal out, but it is not leaking yet, but I give it a couple of days. I am looking for a different pan also, the cast aluminum Cobra pan, but they don't make them fot the 351W anymore, so I am still marking my spot. A real pisser!!!

Back in Black · #16 (**permalink**) 10-12-2002, 10:25 PM

Is sticking with the stock SVO drag race pan....and a 3 qt accusump...I wanted a windage tray type unit...but the stories like the ones in this thread keep coming...

Are these problems due to the dimensional changes thru the years on blocks? The 385 series had many of these and that was the deciding factor in keeping the stock pan (at least for now)

Anyone ?

PERUCH · #17 (**permalink**) 10-13-2002, 03:10 AM

Try armando's pan:www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/1624/
Perfect pan for the price
Bernie

rbrunckhorst · #18 (**permalink**) 10-13-2002, 06:27 AM

I have a Canton oil pan also. My car marks its spot every night. I',m running a Southern Automotive 351w Stoker with about 500 miles on it. Bill Parham suggested I "lightly" torque the bolts down three or four times. I've torqued them four times now and, although its better, still have small leaks. Which type of an Armando oil pan to use pn 401, 402, or 403? Any particular gasket?

MJN · #19 (**permalink**) 10-13-2002, 10:44 AM

I'm glad to hear that I'm not losing my mind and that somebody else is having the same kind of trouble. I have never had this trouble with Factory oil pans so I didn't think I was doing anything too bone headed in mounting the pan that would've caused these problems. If you happen to find a 'fix' let me know. I am going to try the "right stuff" and see if that works. Sounds like if it doesn't that I may have to cut the oil pan off.

PERUCH · #20 (**permalink**) 10-13-2002, 11:16 AM

rmando make oil pan for anything,if you are totally not sastisfy you are gladly reimbursed,
Bernie