Engine?

[Lew the taxman]

Stu

This is 'Lew' from Vallejo. Drop me an e-mail sometime. We can talk more about your engine selection. I'll even let you drive my SPF. Also! On the 25th of this month, I'm going to run over at Sears Point with the NorCal Racing Club's open track event. You should come over and drive with us.

Lew

[Howard Bosworth]

The few times i had a friends 289 out the one thing i did learn was how quick things can happen......
Building a mild 351 for my car hopefully will help keep it enjoyable but safe until i'm sure i can handle the big horses.
Just my .02
Howard

[Excaliber]

The very mild mannered 5.0 in my Excalibur still managed to take me by surprise more than once. It's very difficult to guess-ta-mate the actual traction available on any given road surface at any given time. Get it wrong and the car WILL spin around on you. In a few months I was bored with the lowly stock 5.0. BUT, in many ways I was LUCKY to have survived the first few months at the same time!

These light cars can be a handful, and "lifting" does NOT stop the spin out! That in some cases is what CAUSED the spin out!

Ernie

[agro1]

Todd B - I had the same faith in the "warranty" CHP advertises...Just wait till your first problem and see what they say...Mine was a $20 head gasket that went - think they covered it under warranty ?? Exactamundo my friend...They took the heads back and fixed'em, but guess who got stuck with the R&R ($600) of the heads....Yours truely.

Cranky - I agree with you, but that is no reason to NOT put as much hp in the car as you can, just as BNEWELL suggested...Any driver who doesn't respect his car and it's hp and ends up on a flatbed deserves exactly that. Morons that can't handle their hp when they think they can, well, maybe a trip to the body shop is exactly the "wakup call" they need.

[SCOBRAC]

Hmm,

20 something son + Cobra = Dead son and a wrecked car.. I don't care how well he drives.. I would have killed myself long before now if I were 10 years younger and I knew how to drive.

Skip Barber doesn't prepare you for what this is like.. I am sure you are a responsible dad but let him have the viper and keep the cobra locked up until he gets his competition liscense or he turns 35.. I promise it will be safer and cheaper in the long run..

How much is the viper worth.. 55, 60k.. How much is a Cobra.. 45-55k.. Ad in the price of a nice casket.. 10k, potential loss if he hits something or someone 5-10k with the best insurance after lost time, misc fees.. maybe 50k if your insurance doesn't cover the legal costs..

Give the boy the viper, it's a more civilized ride easier to correct in a skid and easier to insure.. Cheaper in the long run..

Beyond that you can have my 428 (long block) for $2600 and I will deliver it in N. Calif..

Regards,

[Excaliber]

Agro1,,,so what your saying is,,,put in that 500 hp monster motor and turn the kid loose? OOOKkk,,,,,,,,,,,I still say start small and work your way up.

My boy's been driving since he was 10. He started in my Austin Healey 3000 (stick shift). He does a pretty fair job now at 13. He's had a car sideways, countered steered OK (had to change his under wear, ha ha). But I want HIS car to be a 4 cyl with an automatic, and he can work his way up to 5.0 and beyond in good time.

Ernie

[agro1]

Now THERE is a wise man...If my Dad had given me ANYTHING that would do a sub 10 sec 0-60 I would for sure not be alive today. Give the kid the Viper - wow, that sucks...My Dad knew my love for speed and showed his love for me by giving me a '79 Suburban...Young kids, as good a driver as he may be, ALWAYS do something stupid. Do something stupid in a Cobra and your DEAD. Physical driving skill is only half of it (if that), the rest is all mental and having damn good judgement. I have yet to meet a 20 something year old that ALWAYS displays good judgement...

I totaled the Suburban btw...

[SFfiredog]

Hi Stu,
I heard of this guy in San Francisco named Mike Something-or-other. He doesn't know dog doo about engines but you should let him build your motor 'cause he needs money to finish his Cobra
I'm back from Florida and on the job!

--Mike

[got snake?]

Originally posted by agro1


I have yet to meet a 20 something year old that ALWAYS displays good judgement...

agro1,

My name is got snake?. I am 20 something...nice to meet you.

GS

[agro1]

...That's why right underneath your name you have chosen to display a BEER logo, on a site dedicated to hi perf cars...Now if that isn't a lack of good judgement I don't know what is...

Nice try kiddo...Next ?

[flipper35]

I was in my mid-twenties when I bought mine. 400+ horse. There are time you can use good judgement. My best friend would have totaled it if it was his.

[750hp]

My Dad went about it a totally different way for me. My first car was a Falcon that we restored from the ground up. It had a 350hp 351 Cleveland, modified C4 with 3000rpm convertor, and a 9" diff. It was lowered, had a nice set of aftermarket wheels and tires, aftermarket gauges & steering wheel, etc.

Death Trap, right??? Not a chance - everybody had their input as to when I'd first get a speeding ticket / crash the car / kill myself. Back then, my Dad even had a bet with me that I couldn't keep a clean license for my first year. I was so determined that I could prove everybody wrong that every time I got in that car, I had the lingering doubts of dozens of people to make me drive sensibly.

I still own that car 14 years later. It now has a 460, full manual Powerglide with a 4200rpm convertor, full spool 9", and to this day I have NEVER had a crash or speeding ticket in it.

[agro1]

750HP - Very nice...

[SCOBRAC]

My suggestion you give the kid a Viper was an excercise in absurdity.. Although given one or the other I do think he would have a more likely chance or reaching 30 in the Viper.. Antilock brakes, airbags, near 50/50 weight bias.. Lets not forget the balance of the factory warranty.. As well as the 7 or 8:1 HP to weight ratio..

Last time I looked the numbers we are batting around 550 hp or so in a 2500 pound car is 4.5:1.. NASCAR is right about there at 4.5:1 but they have 85 feet of 1 1/2" steel tubing and 3700lbs of sheetmetal around them..

It is not politically correct to talk about about street racing, not that rice burning stuff you see on the news and in the movies. I'm thinking Cannon Ball run style.. Silver state classic, that kind of thing.. Get the kid involved in something he can learn his limitations as well as the machine.. If he gets through it and still wants to go fast let him drive the Cobra.

I can't tell you how much underestimating an off-camber decreasing radius hairpin turn at 70 mph on a country road at night with a rock wall on one side and a barb wire fence on the other will put your head right.. Lest you think it is impossibe to flat spot street tires.. It is..

[Jack21]

17+ year old son + Cobra = seriously injured or dead 17+ year old son. That was precicely the point I was trying to make suggesting a 289 or 302 engine choice for a starting point in a Cobra your kid is going to drive. At 21, I had a TR-4, 4 banger, with barely 100 hp. And it needed some acclimating.

My son-in-law is 34, and he got a check out ride before he got behind the wheel with me with him.

I probably lost more friends during the heyday of musclecars in the '60's behind the wheel of too much horsepower, and not enough experience, than I did in Viet Nam.

[Turk]

Cranky's advice to the motoring public...

"Jack is right, start off small and learn how to drive. You can go bigger later.
What did Cranky do? Started with a Big Block and now he is driving a Small Block!!!

I am confused!!

TURK

[RACER X #99]

You got that right Turk,
Don't do as I do, do as I say. I am one of those BB jerks who got real pissed when he couldn't catch that guy with the little 289 Cobra." I'll show him just what a BB can do".
This is what it can DO, It can spin around in a heartbeat and back itself into a tire barrier at 80 MPH. What a freakin dope I was that day. Also a dope on a few days since then but you already knew that.
Don't do what I did, learn how to drive it at a high performance school and then go try and kick butt on the little guys.

When you are half Irish, Murphys law covers you too.
Whatever can go wrong...............you know the rest.
McCrash Cranky

[Turk]

Cranky,
It is cold and wet out there today. I had a little time for the Internet and YOU. I thought why not come in here and bust your chops for a while... How am I doin'?

So what you are telling us is , You were wrong then, but you are right today.

What if you got it backwards? How will we know? Isn't better to trust those of us that have a better "TRACK" record than you?
I was never wrong! Then or Now!

I can't wait till Spring...

TURK
GO BRONCOS!

[Jack21]

We cursed Irish, and Murphy. We all know him too well, don't we!

But in keeping in context with this thread, this engine upgrade as driving skills improve applies to adults also.

Thought long and hard about the 393W stroker kit before installing the completed 351W engine waiting on the stand to drop in. Had no feel for power curve and car response. Taking the engine apart again would delay getting car on the street, and all I wanted to do was drive it, wring it out, then prioritize the upgrades.

Well, this (admittedly somewhat conservative) 351W, TFS heads, Comp hydraulic roller cam, roller rockers, Ede Perf RPM, 700 Holley, has more instant acceleration than 454/455's I've driven in normal size cars. I could get sideways, and backwards real easy in this thing with one careless move. It does require some (OK, a lot) of acclimating. I could greatly benefit from a competition driving school, and am not too macho to admit it.

Car now has 12,000+ miles on it and am thinking about that 393 stroker kit giving me a little more mid range torque. Thinking about it, but not doing anything about it.

Some years back, had a GTO with 400 motor. (Twice the weight of the Cobra) Tweaked it with some factory and aftermarket goodies. Beefed suspension, beefed brakes, cam, exhaust, better intake & carb, ported heads, recurved ignition, etc. Came rebuild time, decided to upgrade to 455. Instant torque at any RPM. Thought to myself many times, had I started with the tweaked 455 initially before learning the cars response with the gradually tweaked 400, I wouldn't be here today. The Cobra is a lot less forgiving. Screw up, and you're sideways, or backwards into the bushes.

I honestly don't know how you guys with 460's and 520's do it without killing yourselves without a lot of driving experience with very hot cars.

Our kids have not had the benefit or experience we had with factory (off the showroom floor) 400+HP musclecars. Handing the keys to a car with this kind of power to weight ratio to a youngster borders on criminal unless you plan on spending a lot of time with son (or daughter) in supervised driving instruction. That's assuming you, Dad, have the experience to do so.

[MY 401K]

Look into the 402 stroker from Roush. You get a mill that was built by PRO's with 525 hp and 500+ tq. You will be getting a forged crank, rods, pistons, AFR heads, carb of your choice and many more goodies. It will run about 10k+ and you get a 2 year or 24,000 mile full warranty.

At least take that into consideration.....John