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05-13-2003, 02:01 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Southwest,
WI
Cobra Make, Engine: Shell Valley, Mopar thingy (small block of course)
Posts: 2,215
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Not Ranked
Really wierd timing issue
OK guru's, my timing when cold is 22* at idle, 34* total. When hot the timing is 40* at idle, 34* total. I tried it with the Jacob's box and the stock box. The distributor is a stock vacuum advance converted to mechanical advance. Could this be an out of phase issue? I shouldn't be the coil, the only other commonality. Any ideas?
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Brent Dolphin
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05-13-2003, 02:17 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: so cal,
Cal
Cobra Make, Engine: I used to fix them for a living
Posts: 2,563
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You have the vacuum advance disconnected, right?
All distributors have mechanical advance built into them, look under the rotor, there are little swing arms that fling out at rpm. Check those to make sure they are not sticky.
__________________
In a fit of 16 year old genius, I looked down through the carb while cranking it to see if fuel was flowing, and it was. Flowing straight up in a vapor cloud, around my head, on fire.
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05-13-2003, 02:32 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Southwest,
WI
Cobra Make, Engine: Shell Valley, Mopar thingy (small block of course)
Posts: 2,215
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Not Ranked
The vacuum advance line is disconnected, and I also noticed it has a plug on it so if the air gets hot and expands it will push the vacuum plate. I thing that would retard the timing, but I removed it after I noticed it. I had it apart and the weights move freely and it works properly when the car is not warmed up. I don't know why the temp should matter.
I have another dist that has been sitting for a couple years in the block I just pulled from a friends motorhome. I guess I should pull it and clean it up and throw it in to check if you think the dist is the problem.
By converted to mechanical I just meant the proper springs were put in and the vacuum advance disconnected.
It is a magnetic pickup, would the heat affect the reluctor(?) and pickup?
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Brent Dolphin
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05-13-2003, 02:39 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: so cal,
Cal
Cobra Make, Engine: I used to fix them for a living
Posts: 2,563
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Well, the total timing is still 34 degrees at temp or cold, that is good. Why the initial timing appears to advance a bunch when hot is very, very odd. Maybe you ought to recheck it, that just doesn't seem right.
__________________
In a fit of 16 year old genius, I looked down through the carb while cranking it to see if fuel was flowing, and it was. Flowing straight up in a vapor cloud, around my head, on fire.
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05-13-2003, 02:45 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Shasta Lake,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 26,597
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Brent,
I have an inductive distributor in my car and have ran it and the Jacob's Pro Street unit for years with no problems. Your problem seems odd but must be something simple. Did it just start or did you make any changes that could have changed things ?
Ron
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05-13-2003, 02:57 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Klamath Falls,
Or
Cobra Make, Engine: shell valley
Posts: 246
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Flipper are you attaching the pickup on the lite the same also some pickups don't like some after market wires stray RF before you change the distributor pull the plugs ( eat Wheaties) see if the timing chain has stretched how many degrees the crank moves + &- before the roter on the distributor does. Just a thought.
Ken
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Talent is your head in communication with your balls.
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05-13-2003, 02:58 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Southwest,
WI
Cobra Make, Engine: Shell Valley, Mopar thingy (small block of course)
Posts: 2,215
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Not Ranked
I only noticed this after getting the info to trigger directly from the dist and wiring it up. So I swithed back to the stock Orange box and got the same result. I switched back to the Jacob's and it's always the same. Check the timing cold = good, check the timing at operating temp = wierd. I wish I had a way to convert a video to the computer, I would post it for all to see.
On a side note, the Orange box retards my timing almost 8* at high rpm the piece of junk.
Maybe oil pressure or something as I would thing heat would retard everything at all rpm.
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Brent Dolphin
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05-13-2003, 03:10 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Southwest,
WI
Cobra Make, Engine: Shell Valley, Mopar thingy (small block of course)
Posts: 2,215
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Not Ranked
Junket, the timing chain is a double roller with 8000 miles. I would hope it hasn't stretched. I would think also the timing would be retarded if true.
Would the pickup/rotor being out of phase do this? I can drill a hole in an old cap if you y'all think I should check it.
I can watch the timing go from 40* at 1100rpm and it slowly retards to 34* at about 2800rpm. Weak springs and the added lube from the oild when it warms up? The springs aren't broken. Some sort of odd reversion. What would happen if I locked the advance, would this cause any engine problems? If the timing stayed steady with no ability to advance, I guess we would know it is in the weights/springs.
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Brent Dolphin
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05-15-2003, 01:06 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Southwest,
WI
Cobra Make, Engine: Shell Valley, Mopar thingy (small block of course)
Posts: 2,215
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I swapped dists and the new one stayed at 22* and the idle quality was quite different. I guess I'll recurve the replacement dist.
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Brent Dolphin
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05-28-2003, 05:17 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Metro Atlanta,
GA
Cobra Make, Engine: 2 dr roadster, V-8, 4 spd.
Posts: 2,780
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I once had the roll pin that holds/keys the star wheel inside the distributor disappear, and at random the star wheel would slip on the shaft of the distributor creating mistiming. Happen more when it was warm as things loosened up. Sounds like you are up and running, but for giggles, see if that star wheel has sloppy play.
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05-28-2003, 05:55 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Southwest,
WI
Cobra Make, Engine: Shell Valley, Mopar thingy (small block of course)
Posts: 2,215
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Not Ranked
The only place there was any play is where the dist shaft goes into the gear. It's like a wide standard screwdriver and it didn't fit snug in the slot. The new one is rock solid, just the wrong curve.
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Brent Dolphin
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05-28-2003, 06:48 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Metro Atlanta,
GA
Cobra Make, Engine: 2 dr roadster, V-8, 4 spd.
Posts: 2,780
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Not Ranked
That'll do it.
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