Supercharging

ColoradoCobras. · #1 (**permalink**) 09-09-2003, 01:42 PM

I know it is a bit off-base to alter what one would normally see under the hood...but...has anyone Supercharged a Cobra yet?

We do Whipple Superchargers and I can't convince the shop to Supercharge one of our Unique brand Cobras.
If you have....
#1 Did yours fit under the stock configured hood? (Don't wish to impune the looks of the car)
#2 Was your car Carbureted or Fuel Injected
#3 What type of rear axle was employed, straight axle or IRS?
#4 What was your effect on handling?
#5 What was your horsepower gain?
#6 What was your horspower to weight ratio, before and after?

www.ColoradoCobras.com

PSB · #2 (**permalink**) 09-09-2003, 01:58 PM

There are many guys over at FFCobra.com running superchargers. Mostly fuel injected motors with centrifigal (Paxton/Vortec) superchargers. There are a couple guys running Kenne Bell (axial) superchargers.

Pete

MJN · #3 (**permalink**) 09-09-2003, 02:16 PM

I run a Kenne Bell on mine. Fuel injected at 6 PSI. Easy bolt on and fits under the stock hood with no mods. Adds more low end torque than top end HP. I was dyno'd at 362 RWHP and 412 RWTQ. A real fun ride. I can e-mail you pictures and more details in you want.

Excaliber · #4 (**permalink**) 09-09-2003, 02:23 PM

Excaliburs came with a Keene Bell option. Of the 150 or so cars produced only a very few actually had one. The hood WAS modified just ahead of the scoop with a "bubble" for the nose of the super charger.

I believe a Vortech will fit under the hood without mods, and I'm thinking about going for it! 9" rear, 3:55 gears, 5 speed, 302, like 80% of all Excaliburs.

Ernie

justbetter · #5 (**permalink**) 09-09-2003, 04:14 PM

G'Day all, here's a pic of my little toy with the supercharger fitted prior to ducting, the ducting is now all complete bud dont have a pic's will try and get one next week.

THe procharger gave me the hood clearance not to mention the benifit of the unorthodox engine !!!

cobrashoch · #6 (**permalink**) 09-10-2003, 09:30 AM

#1- Nope, my hood looks very similar to the two factory paxton cars though.
#2- Carb'ed and in the box, 1050 dominator, V-4/ J-trim Vortec
#3- Straight 9 inch locker w/goodies. Don't EVEN THINK about a indpendent rear in a comp car. More later if you want to talk about it. Hint: both the NHRA and the SCCA have "special concerns" about this issue right now.
#4- Comes out of a turn much harder but overall the handling is the same as a natural aspirated car.
#5- +/- 25% more or less, depends on the tune and my mood.
#6- re'dickulus both before and after. In any case most Cobras can't harness much over 450 horsepower without adding weight to the car, together with more expensive parts.
Note: Big block engines tend to have their torque curves extend out past the horsepower curves under boost. With most small blocks the torque numbers tend to trail the horsepower curves. Translation, broken parts and safety issues when pushing big blocks hard in a Cobra. Also positive displacement superchargers give you a touch better throttle response on the street, usually. (depends on tune and engine build though)

cobrashock

ColoradoCobras. · #7 (**permalink**) 09-10-2003, 11:04 AM

Thank you Ron. That was the type of info (and warning ) I was looking for....I guess you're saying that IRS rear ends get "a little twisted" when you put that much Supercharged Horespower behind them?

Don

Chuck Nickloy · #8 (**permalink**) 09-10-2003, 08:50 PM

Well, i guess it is still technically still a car, although it flys.

I have just spent the last weekend at heartland park track in Topeka Ka.

Driving KMP214X. Hybrid!! 289 FIA on 427sc chassis, Kirkham's latest chassis components. ( Lightweight Alum suspension everything). Then the boys in our shop installed the 4.6Dohc
Vortec J trim supercharged motor with TKO and 3.70: 1 rear gear.
It was an SVTOA event with instructors and non competing type event.

At the dyno we made just a tad short of 500 rear wheel hp, and I forget the torque but more than a bucket full. The car had michelin pilots front and rear, 265's front / 335's rear. It hooked, it cooked, it went zoom, zoom!!! The IRS handled everything just real fine. ( I had an Everett Morrison with a solid rear, Back bone hammer!! Changed it to a Jag. Cannot imagine a Cobra without an IRS, sorry) I have never driven this car on a track, or this track. I have only been on a track twice in my life. 1 min. 55 sec. on the 2.1 mile course if you know the track.

I have driven a few cobras to date. Big blocks, Small Blocks and a cobra gocart. This one is a WOW! It will go down the road at 1200 RPM in 5th smoothly, and probally be in the low 10's if not a high 9 in the quarter. ( with a knowledgeable driver )

2200 lb car. (4.5 hp / lb) only motor ever in the car so no befor and after, sorry.

Try one!! I'm now doing 2 more 4.6 motors with the blower and we have aquired an 871 for the rainy day big block

The Best
Chuck

cobrashoch · #9 (**permalink**) 09-11-2003, 08:38 PM

The problem with a irs is the 1/2 shafts. The 3'rd member can be built to be quite strong using methods not usially discussed on this site though. When a 1/2 shaft breaks at speed you will have sudden right/left turn and bad things happen real fast. I thought a few years back that the new CV technology (over U-joints) might give us some new ways of handling high torque, but so far nothing I have seen has convinced me otherwise. I'm not the only one that has recognized this problem. For example the NHRA requires higher horsepower/classed cars to use live axles even if the car came with a irs from the factory. They are also having problems with cars such as 500 horsepower Vipers, Mustang Cobras, after market Corvettes and the like right now. (factory cars)
I'm not even going to get into the problems with stick
transmissions and your options, together with blowers on comp. cars.
On street cars though, most of the stock stuff out there will work "FAIR" if a little common sense is applied. But I ask you, is Cobra ownership a good common sense judgement in the first place? And you want to add a blower!
cobrashock

Excaliber · #10 (**permalink**) 09-11-2003, 08:44 PM

Well...as Mark Twain said, "Common sense is not so common." For a dragster it is a "no brainer" in my opinion, I'll take a live axle everytime!

Ernie

ColoradoCobras. · #11 (**permalink**) 09-12-2003, 07:51 AM

Common sense appears to be slapping me up-side 'th back o my head.
I thought...being a novice...that it would be "cool" to pop the hood of a Cobra and see a blower coiled up under the hood to bite back at the world.
Now I see for safety sake...that's not a good idea. I would much rather have the handling capabilities of IRS for our great Colorado Highways than a straightline hornet on steroids. Give me live axles I guess!
The other choice but sensless dollars wasted would be to put the blower in but put a larger pulley to slow the rpm's and lower the boost...which defeats the operation but still "looks cool"

Right now we have a guy's car in the shop. He has a 1961 Ford Falcon sedan delivery...with a Chevy 383. He is having us install a polished, throttle body, fuel injected blower from Whipple on top of his "Stroker"...talk about a guy who has a twisted sense of "cool"!

Don

B. SMITH · #12 (**permalink**) 09-12-2003, 08:45 AM

I HAVE OWNED BOTH THE JAG IRS, "UNIQUE", AND THE LIVE AXLE,
"EXCALIBUR".
BOTH ARE GREAT CARS BUT I PREFER THE LIVE AXLE.
I HAVE NOT NOTICED THE HANDLING DISATVANTAGE THAT I EXPECTED WITH THE LIVE AXLE.

B. SMITH

cobrashoch · #13 (**permalink**) 09-14-2003, 08:35 AM

B.Smith - Your experience's reflect my own. It's been my experience that if a live axle is rough riding that most times it will be in a overspring situation or the shocks are too stiff. Most times it's both.
A irs has advantages in weight, handling and ride quality, only when the road gets very, very rough. Suspension travel will come into play then. But then again most of the irs setups I've seen are of the stock factory variety and the stock stuff usially has the short arms and limited travel in the first place. So yes, a irs setup can be made to be lighter than a live axle. In most cases that's the only "practical" true advantage they have, unless of course you are running the popular "full" Jag setup, then you loose the weight advantages with it too. IMHO.
cobrashoch

MAXVELO · #14 (**permalink**) 09-14-2003, 09:31 AM

To answer your origional questions(Colorado Cobras)

I run a vortech V-1 supercharger on a big block 514 the supercharger fits under hood but the pipe running from the supercharger to the carb bonnet does not! I either have to build a bulge in the hood or have the pipe stick out. I cant go with lower valve covers because my crate engine requires tall valve covers for the rollers. I have an Eccel fuel injection (DFI) system. I am running a 9" rear and the car handles great. I have never been in a IRS car so I personally have nothing to compare to. The crate motor origionally put out 600 hp but adding the fuel injection system and the supercharger brought that to over 800hp. my Hp to weight ratio is a rediculous 3.37 lb per hp. (call me sick everyone else does) I attend a hp addiction couseling session every fri night! My Wife prays Ill get over it!
See ya
Gary

cobrashoch · #15 (**permalink**) 09-14-2003, 09:54 AM

Gary - I have the same pipe. Am adding a aftercooler soon but the air piping to the pressure box will remain on the passenger side and the same. The end result is a hood scoop that is only a couple of inches taller than stock, but it needs to be quite wide to look right. BTW- I have the mold and plug for my hoodscoop and if your interested maybe we could work something out if you need something. What tranny are you trying?
Maybe we can start a local chapter on CC called the HP sickies. I don't think you will ever get over it though. I never have and the hell with what any one else thinks!
cobrashock

Excaliber · #16 (**permalink**) 09-14-2003, 10:00 AM

".......that is only a couple of taller than stock...."

If you lived down under that could easily mean a couple of feet and now one would even notice.

Ernie

cobrashoch · #17 (**permalink**) 09-14-2003, 10:03 AM

Ernie - you beat my edit. Man your fast!
cobrashock

Excaliber · #18 (**permalink**) 09-14-2003, 10:24 AM

MAXVELO · #19 (**permalink**) 09-14-2003, 10:56 AM

Ron I am currently painting my car and I havent decided what to do about the pipe I really dont like the Idea of a stray bulge on one side of my hood, nor do I like the idea of not running a hood. Im leaning towards having a hole cut out to allow the pipe clearance (chrome pipe) my car is currently yellow with no stripes with black trim. Im painting it black with ghost stripes and having everything re-chromed. I think nothing looks meaner than black & chrome! Can you post some pics of your plumbing, scoop?
Thanks Gary

Jack21 · #20 (**permalink**) 09-14-2003, 02:22 PM

A guy in our club (Capitol Area Cobra Club) has a Vortec under the hood of his injected 302 FFR. All fits without hood mods. Pretty sure Wade has the FFR IRS option. Car is completely streetable and well mannered (gets about 22 MPG cruising) until he puts his foot in it. Then his 302 thinks it's a 460.

Had it dyno'd at DVSF this year, and his RWHP was over 400. Not too shabby.