I have a 2003 Superformance with a stout 68 427 side oiler. Finally got it titled and been driving it when I can. The engine temperature concerns me in that even when driving on a 50 degree day the temperature climbs to 80 C quickly (5 to 10 minutes) and will stay there, no problem, however when I get hung in traffic the temperature will rise to 95 - 100 C until the fans kick on. The temperature will stay around 95 C until I drive for 5 or so minutes at 40 plus miles per hour where it will return to 80 C.
Is this typical for FE? (my 408 never got above 95 C on a 95 degree day in traffic)
I inspect the coolant level before every ride and the fans are turning in the correct direction. Supposedly the engine builder installed an oriface plate with a quarter size hole instead of a thermostat
If this is not typical what would you look at to resolve?
Cobra Make, Engine: Former Owner/Builder of KMP142 427 Sideoiler, Tunnel Wedge, Aluminum heads, etc.
Posts: 702
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Kas:
I run a fairly streetable 427 Sideoiler in my Kirkham, and, like yours, it will run up to 85 degrees celsius (185 degrees Fahrenheit) before my 16" puller fam activates. At speed, it will drop to about 80 and stay there. In traffic, about 85 - 90- still well within safe range. In my car, I am running a 50/50 coolant mixture, a 185 F thermostat, and a 185 F activation switch in my expansion tank that activates my puller fan.
Sounds like you are okay, but you may want to change over to a 185 F fan switch so that it activates a bit sooner.
My experience is similar to above. With my SO, temp is 160 at cruise and immediately 190 in traffic, and I have manually-switched pusher fans that, fortunately, keep it there. You're OK up to about 200.
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #629, BBM Side Oiler Block, 482ci, Richmond 5 speed
Posts: 853
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Kasman,
I'd remove the oriface plate and install a 180 degree t-stat and call it a day. There's no reason what so ever not to run a t-stat in a street driven car. Beyond that your temperatures don't sound unreasonable. People seem to worry when a motor exceeds 180 or 190 F, but you don't need to worry unless it actually boils. If you run antifreeze and you have a good 12psi radiator cap, your engine won't boil until you hit 220 or 230 F or so.
Thanks to all for your informative responses....I am resting earier about toasting this puppy.....
Some more facts
The block cleaned up at 0.017" over
I am running an Edlebrock water pump
The timing is at 36 degrees full advance, the engine builder recommends 38 degrees
The air/fuel started around 12:1 now has been adjusted to around 13:1 to 12.7:1 from 2000 rpm up, reading during chassis dyno.
Before I tear into it I will try....
The 50/50 mixture for the coolant
Vent from the highest point to remove any possible trapped air
Then....
Change the thermostat and install a lower temperature automatic fan switch or a manual, dash mounted, toggle
I assume that with the small engine compartment and the low profile of these cars the heat cannot vent well unless they are moving at speed...
Cobra Make, Engine: VICTORY, 92 C.I., belt drive, saddle bags.
Posts: 666
Not Ranked
Mixture
If you don't need the temperature protection below ZERO.... I would go as low as 10% antifreeze (the green stuff) and 90% deionized water with the water whetter and a anti-corrosive additive. Antifreeze is mostly to prevent corrosion and lower the freezing point of the water... it is a real poor heat transfer medium.
I went to that solution due to over temp probelms, and now have a "too cool" issue here in the Left Coast Zone. Dropped my temps by 25 degrees F.
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary CCX33868 Sold. Just "playin' the boards now."
Posts: 634
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I may be sort of a lone wolf, but I ran my fan manually. On cool days, (40's to 50's) once the car was moving at 30mph or more, no need for fan at all. On really hot days of 90+, I turned it on and let it run. The temp gauge would occasionally climb above 200-210 when in slow or stalled traffic. No worries. As previously stated, with a good cap, it won't boil until it hits 220 to 235 or 240.
No, the below boiling water temp does not hurt the engine UNLESS the oil temp gets high also. Above 250 on the oil temp is not good for the oil. It basically cooks it and ruins the lubricating ability.
There is at least one real oil expert in the club....Callling Mr. Parmenter.....calling Mr. Parmenter.....Bob can give the real lowdown on oil viscosity and temperature ranges.
My 427 S/O's oil temp never got above 180, even when the water temp sometimes reached 220 or 230. I credit the 13qt capacity oil system with external oil cooler for this.
I'd say don't worry about the water temp, unless it is consistently running above the 200-210 mark in normal driving. DO worry about the oil temp above 210. Once it gets that hot, it doesn't take much for it to exceed it's operating range and lose it's viscosity and cost you an engine.
Put in the normal 180 thermostat and run with it.
Al
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"I have a 2003 Superformance with a stout 68 427 side oiler. Finally got it titled and been driving it when I can. The engine temperature concerns me in that even when driving on a 50 degree day the temperature climbs to 80 C quickly (5 to 10 minutes) and will stay there, no problem, however when I get hung in traffic the temperature will rise to 95 - 100 C until the fans kick on. The temperature will stay around 95 C until I drive for 5 or so minutes at 40 plus miles per hour where it will return to 80 C."
Personally I don't like to run my 428 that hot. It always seems to run better in the 180° to 195° F (82° to 90° C) range.
Your problem actually sounds more like a setup issue than a cooling issue. Since your motor will run reasonably cool while moving, your radiator appears to be properly sized. Also, your fan seems to be holding the temp once it kicks in, so it appears to be properly sized as well. I would suggest putting in a 180° F (82°C) thermostat and changing/replacing your fan sensor to kick in at 195° F (90°C) degrees. After a lot of trial and error, that's what I settled on and it works well. Fan kicks in at 195° F (90°C) and quickly brings the temp back down to 180° F (82°C). Even on a hot day with traffic, the temp never goes above 200° F (93°C) before I see it start to drop.
Kas: There is a lot of good advice in this column. One other thing to consider would be a close fitting custom fan shroud. I had one built for my 16" puller fan and it solved my low speed overheating problems. Rich
I don't have much to add to what's been said. I have an SA 427 SO in a Superformance. I removed the washer and put in a 180 degree thermostat. I also used water wetter. When the car is moving it usually is below 80 C and goes up to about 95 C when sitting in traffic. I think my fans come on at 95 C and go off at 90 C. I haven't driven the car for a couple of months so I'm working off of a notoriously bad memory. When putting the car together I opted to use the thermostat instead of the "washer". The reason some people don't use thermostats is the possibility of them sticking in engines that sit for long periods of time. I think you'll be OK with what's been recommended.
An oil temp gauge is useful. However, if your oil had gotten hot enough to worry about changing it (other than every 6 months or so), you'd have seen large volumes of steam rising from your engine compartment.
FE Overheating
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