Stupid question time - Engine sizes...

[mattr762]

Ok, as many of you know I come from a chevy background and my father has sheltered me from fords, so I don't know their engines very well.

What are the most common engine sizes excluding boring or stroking
(289, 302, 351, 390, 427, 428, 460) what am I missing? Can you please break your list into big blocks and small blocks?

Here is what I'd really like to see:

Small Blocks:
289ci with XYZ crank = XXXci
289ci with ZZU crank = XXXci
302ci with XYZ crank = XXXci
351ci with XYZ crank = XXXci

Big blocks:
390 with XYZ crank = XXXci


Also which engines look the same from the outside? Lets say I want the appearance of a 427 under the hood but don't want to spend all that money. Which engines could I use? 390? 428? From what I understand the 460's are completely different.

example:
All the old chevy small blocks look the same (283, 327, 350, 400)
Even the big blocks look the same (396, 427, 454)

I can put 400ci crank in a 350ci block and then I have a 383ci. Does it work the same for Ford engines?

Sorry for the stupid questions.

Oh! also, how much can each block be safely bored out to?
I see HERE that a 351W can be stroked to 427.

[blykins]

Most common sizes that you may encounter:

260
289
302
332FE
351W
351C
351M
352FE
390FE
392W (Ford Crate Engine)
400M
406FE
410FE
427FE
428FE
429
460
514 (Ford Crate Engine)

Engines that look the same:

260,289,302

351W,392W

351C,351M,400M

332FE,352FE,390FE,410FE,427FE,428FE

429,460,514

Some of the other guys will have to chime in with the bores and strokes. But here are some:

302 is 4.00" Bore
351W is 4.00" Bore, 3.5" Stroke
I think the other 351's are the same bore and stroke

390FE bore is 4.050", 3.98" Stroke

Pretty sure the 406's, 410's, and 428's have the same bore, 4.130". Of course the strokes are different.

427's have a 4.230" bore, 3.78" stroke.

As for the stroker engines...yeah it works the same. You can throw a longer stroke in an engine and get more cubes....

i.e. 351W, .060" overbore, 4.100" stroke = 425ci.

You can get that with aftermarket stroker cranks....you can't really interchange cranks in Windsor motors like that....but you can put a 400M crank in a 351W and get more cubes. Most of the FE engines will interchange cranks, which will allow different cube combos.

That should get you started. The FE and 385 guys can give you the specs on the FE engines.

Once you fill up your list with the bores and strokes, you can do the quick math and come up with the displacements. For the most part, Ford small blocks won't interchange cranks...There are too many different blocks and not enough displacements. Chevy made it easy because they had so many small blocks...302, 305, 327, 350, 400....All you had to do was swap cranks. However, the 260 thru 302 engines had a different diameter crank journal....the 351's are kinda by themselves, then you have the Cleveland and Modified engines....which will interchange I think. It's just a big jarbled up mess.

Do you have anything in mind? Are you trying to come up with a certain displacement or engine? It would be easier to help out that way....hehehe

[Bob In Ct]

The 390 is 4.050 by 3.780.
The 427 is 4.230 by 3.780.
The 428 is 4.130 by 3.980
The 351s and 352FE are 4.000 by 3.500. The Windsor is called a 351 to avoid confusion.

Bob

[Jim Downard]

Here's a web page you and many others may find interest in. Check it out. It's very informative.

http://www.wrljet.com/engines/specs.html

Jim Downard

Don't know it the link works or if you'll have to type it in, but I love the web page. It's a good read.

[Excaliber]

Blykins hit the nail of the head, "It's kind of jumbled up for Ford engines."

It's WAY easier and much more common to swap cranks in the Chev small blocks and arrive at "known" cid values. If fact I thought the infamous Chev 302 was a 327 with a 283 crank?

Certainly not like that in the Ford world!

I believe it was a favtory Ford that used the 351C heads on a 302 for the Boss Mustang? Two entirely different engines, how in the heck did they do that? That would be like adapting a 396 head to a 350 Chev block!! NOT something the backyard mechanic is going to do!

Ernie

[moparmaddnes]

Hello folks
I am new to the ford world myself. From my name you can guess what I mainly know about. I have the same type of questions about ford motors and trans. I am selling my 71' Challenger to get a cobra, there even rarer and I've always loved the looks of them. that's just one reason I am going to get one. My question is what is the best small block and tranny combo to use. I don't have alot of money to do this either.

[G.R.]

Ernie, I believe the Chev 302 as used in '67/68 Z-28s, and a couple of others, used a bored over 283 block, 327 crank and modified 327 FI heads with a hi-rise alloy manifold.

It is really amazing all the hop up parts available for Chevys compared with Fords--a lot of the Chevy parts are less for the same type of thing offered for Fords as well.

[trularin]

As the saying goes, "It take three times the money to build a Ford as it does a Chevy"

Go figure.

BTW, A lot of people think my Boss is a big block when it isn't.

[Excaliber]

Turlarin, you talking about a 351C? They DID look like a BIG motor compared to the 351W. The heads I guess is what does it.

Hmmmm,,,,,,283 block and 327 crank? I guess! I would think the short stroke 283 crank and the large bore 327 block would have "built rpm" faster. I would have gone that way myself.

The GOOD NEWS is that finally there are LOTS of after market parts available for Ford engines at reasonable prices! Especially the 302. What a long long time THAT has taken!

Chevy "got lucky" in 1955 and did come up with a basic design that was light years ahead of Fords 292-312 Y blocks. The 7 or so years it took Ford to develope what would become the 289-302 engines was way to late in the game to overcome Chev's HUGE lead.

That fact alone could be considered Fords biggest mistake of all time. Management just refused to believe their 292-312's would NEVER be a "race" motor (until it was to late). This was the same managment team that brought us the Edsel.

Ernie

[flatliner]

Hey Matt, You can start with a 351W bore it .030 over and then stroke it 4.5 inches and that will result in 427.5 cu. in. Hope this helps. flatliner

[Clois Harlan]

To muddy the waters a little more,

In the small block V8 class the first small block was a 221 cu and was the same block as the 260, 289, 302, and 351 windsor. I think it came out in 1962 in Falcons and Fairlanes.

The 351 Cleveland shared the same block as those above but had some big heads and valves. The 400 engine came out in the 70's and I dont' know it's roots.

Clois

[blykins]

"Hey Matt, You can start with a 351W bore it .030 over and then stroke it 4.5 inches and that will result in 427.5 cu. in. Hope this helps.

That's a little too much stroke for a small block...I don't even think they make a 4.5" crank for a small block. 4.5" stroke would be 459ci.....hehehe....wouldn't that be nice....

If you're starting with a .030" overbore, you want about a 4.180" stroke...there are probably some aftermarket crank grinds that stroke...or you can offset grind one.

If you're staring with a .040", you want a 4.160" stroke...

And if you have a .060" overbore, you want a 4.125" stroke. I was shooting for that with my engine, but I didn't want to have to offset grind a 400M crank or have one specially made, so I just went with a 4.100" stroke and got 425ci. Close enough.

[blykins]

You know it's funny....if you put in a 427FE bore and stroke, 4.230"x 3.78", then it's not really 427ci....it's 425. Hmmm......

[ohekk]

I owned a 57 Mercury Turnpike Cruiser that was powered by a
368.

I'm assuming the 368 was an early version FE?

By the way, my Merc could easily blow the doors off my buddies
59 Ford with a 352!

[RACER X #99]

Over the years Ford always had a "better Idea" at least as far engines go.But back in 55 Chevy had the 'Best" idea and they are still using the same basic block design.

At one time Smokey Yunick expiremented with every engine from every manufacturer and he alway went back to the sb Chevy. I may be wrong but I think he said it was the best damn engine ever made.

If I wasn't a hard headed Ford guy I would have a Chevy in my Fake Cobra.

[Satanpez]

blykins: The 427 is 425 ci. The 427 name came about because another manufacturer had a 425 at the time. (I believe either Olds or Buick. Chevy had one of course in the 60s but I don't think their motor was the one that made the change)



-steve in nj-

[PSB]

Originally posted by moparmaddnes


Hello folks
I am new to the ford world myself. From my name you can guess what I mainly know about. I have the same type of questions about ford motors and trans. I am selling my 71' Challenger to get a cobra, there even rarer and I've always loved the looks of them. that's just one reason I am going to get one. My question is what is the best small block and tranny combo to use. I don't have alot of money to do this either.

There's really no "best" combination. If cheap is what you want, get a junkyard 351W (most are found in trucks and vans) and swap in a decent cam. That'll get you around 350hp. A Mustang T-5 is a good low-buck tranny.


Pete

[flipper35]

quote:
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Originally posted by moparmaddnes


Hello folks
I am new to the ford world myself. From my name you can guess what I mainly know about. I have the same type of questions about ford motors and trans. I am selling my 71' Challenger to get a cobra, there even rarer and I've always loved the looks of them. that's just one reason I am going to get one. My question is what is the best small block and tranny combo to use. I don't have alot of money to do this either.
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If he knows the engines, why not? A 360/a833 is a pretty good combo if you aren't a purist.