ERA 289 FIA steering rack

Bruce Edwards · #1 (**permalink**) 02-25-2004, 07:02 PM

I have a customer that is buying a ERA 289 FIA and has asked us to do some off the build up. I really do not like the idea of the import rack that say to use. I see in the build manual that they say they will sell you a modified Mustang rack. Can anyone tell me what it is? I can not get an answer from ERA. I have a feeling it is a Flaming River rack but if anyone knows for sure and maybe has the part number??

Thanks

Tongue Pirate · #2 (**permalink**) 02-25-2004, 08:12 PM

I have heard of any problems regarding the Subaru rack. Anyone have any info on this?

NeedAntiVenom · #3 (**permalink**) 02-27-2004, 06:35 AM

Bruce,

I have had no problems with the Subaru rack - smooth and tight with nice ratio and great feel to it. Never heard of any rack problems either.

Talk to Peter at ERA if you want info on the alternate rack.

Tongue Pirate · #4 (**permalink**) 02-27-2004, 06:51 AM

I've heard another person ask why they would use this rack, claiming that it would be less than effective. I personally have never heard of any negative feedback concerning the steering. Not that I know anything

I would really like to hear any feedback.

Bruce Edwards · #5 (**permalink**) 02-27-2004, 07:03 AM

Why not use a USA rack to start with? I did find out that the ERA rack is a Flaming River rack that is modified by ERA but I can not get an answer as to what they do to it.
Why not just modify the frame for a more common rack that is easier to find and service down the road? What is going to happen to all those kits with a Subaru rack when you can not get repair parts for it? I do not want my customer to get caught in that way.

strictlypersonl · #6 (**permalink**) 02-27-2004, 03:01 PM

"Why not use a USA rack to start with?"

Because the length of the rack was dictated by the inner pivots of the lower control arms. And I am obsessive about suspension geometry.

Find me a stock front-steer rack with 22" separating the inner tie rod pivots and I'll change in a second. The Subaru was perfect when we first started using it some tweny years ago. Light, strong, cheap, and dimensionally correct. I've looked and looked, but have never found a suitable replacement. We did not want to force the customer to buy from us, so the rack had to be off-the-shelf.

"I did find out that the ERA rack is a Flaming River rack that is modified by ERA but I can not get an answer as to what they do to it. "

The rack, pinion and housing are shortened, the mounts cut off and new mounts machined. It's a PITA to do.

Tongue Pirate · #7 (**permalink**) 02-27-2004, 03:44 PM

Thanks Bob.

Personally I see no reason to bother with something that is not broken. Like I said before, I don't remember ever hearing any negative feedback about the Subaru rack other than from a guy who was not familiar with this type of car anyway. Knowing the reputation of ERA I would expect that things have been well thought out.

Bruce Edwards · #8 (**permalink**) 02-27-2004, 04:27 PM

Bob,

I am not trying to start any trouble. My concern is that a 20 year old rack from a car that is not the popular is going to get harder to find and parts are going to get harder to come by. It is my understanding that the folks at Flaming River will build custom racks. As I have said before the Hunter car we built came with a very short Flaming River rack that is made for the car by them not by Hunter. I know how much of a pin in the ass it is to shorten a rack. We took a Mustang II powersteering rack cut the body down to 24 inches, machined off the piston from the rack, made and installed a link on the right side inner tie rod and installed an outside pusher cylinder then had to modify the front of the car to take the new rack, PLUS we had to tilt it way up to allow us to hook the steering shaft from the column to it. Now that was a pain.
Can you not contract with Flaming River to have the racks made up for your car at a good price that would make it cost effective for you and the customer? I know that I spend hours chasing parts for customers cars and then rebuilding the used items to be sure that my customers will have a safe and reliable car when it is completed.
Thank you for letting me know what is done to the rack to fit it to your car and I am going to recommend to my customer that he go that route and not mess with the Subaru rack.
Please understand that it is in my nature to reengineer things I see on cars. I have been doing it for 20+ years and it is not something I can stop now. We have been building and restoring cars in my shop since the late 80's and have been modifying kits since the first one we built. Most of those things we did to our fist car are now stock items on most Cobra kits I now see. The cars are also safer than the ones that were out 20 years ago and I credit all those builders and tinkerers that have been buying and building kits over the years.

strictlypersonl · #9 (**permalink**) 02-28-2004, 06:07 AM

Bruce,

I don't want to force the customers to be at the mercy of a single supplier, including us. I have been burned too many times before. So.... until I find a production unit - or even a "standard" design that's made by multiple companies that's appropriate for a street car, I'll stick with what I've got.

But I will continue looking.

Bruce Edwards · #10 (**permalink**) 02-28-2004, 08:15 AM

Bob,

Tell you what. When my customer get his kit and it is dropped off at my shop I will take a look at it to see how it is set up and what we can do with it. I may be able to come up with a easy mod of a stock production rack and if I do I will be more than happy to send that info along to you.

jschiller · #11 (**permalink**) 02-28-2004, 09:37 AM

FYI

Rebuilt Subaru racks can be had online from Discount Auto Parts. Abt $230. Clean and shiney and with a guarantee.

If you are worried about replacing it in the future, buy 2, they are that cheap. If you are in the business, buy 10.

I dont know about you but I bought 2 of a lot of parts that I will know need replacing over the years and I don't even have the car yet.

Bruce Edwards · #12 (**permalink**) 02-28-2004, 10:02 AM

jschiller,

I could do that but I would rather find a rack that I can service for years to come with out having to worry about getting parts or tying up cash for parts that may be hard to come by in the future. I have the use of a machine shop and can and have modified production items to work on different types of cars. In this way things like tie rods,boots, bushings and the like are in stock items at most stores and should be for years into the future.
This is not a knock at ERA and was never meant to start up any kind of problem or offend any of the ERA car owners.
I am always looking for ways to improve things it is just part of my nature.

ERA Chas · #13 (**permalink**) 02-28-2004, 05:04 PM

Bruce,
Your concern for your customer is laudable. However, if he gets 21 years out of his Subaru rack as I have, he may feel it doesn't owe him a thing. [As I do]
If I only get 10 more minutes out of it, I'll sweat the options then. Probably buy another or parts from Bob. Putnam is as obsessive as you are and the proof is the perfect geometry and tightness of my front end after that length of time.
If you still worry, tell the customer to pop for the ERA modified rack which will still be cheaper for him than your hours to re-engineer things. It's also a surperb piece.
Respectfully,

TampaFla · #14 (**permalink**) 02-28-2004, 05:22 PM

Well, since both Bruce and Bob say go with the ERA rack, I think I will, now if I could just move up on the waiting list...

RICK LAKE · #15 (**permalink**) 02-28-2004, 05:34 PM

Bruce Edwards Hi As far as I know the Subaru racks are all new or reman racks that are checked by Doug who is the Main assemblier at ERA. I have not heard of any problem with these racks at all. I might believe that a Flaming steering column was put in an ERA cobra because of the tilt ablitity for driving position. I have the first Appleton power rack in an ERA and for autocross and roadracing it works perfect. My car came with the manual rack and was nice but autocross made the car respond slower than a wanted. I drive with the Left hand and shift with the right. It is correct for me and works. I have a 2 and a 3 in autocross with cars that have more power and are lighter. I like the idea of maken a car better than it is. ERA was not happy when I wanted a power assist rack in my car but I had my reasons and that was that. You might want to look at Sweet or appleton rack for your car, P/S is not a bad thing

Bruce check with the circle track or dirt track guys, you may like what you see.

Rick Lake

Bruce Edwards · #16 (**permalink**) 02-28-2004, 05:41 PM

Chas,

I am happy to hear that you have 21 years on your rack and it is still going strong. My concern is that no new racks are made and all of the ones available are like yours 20 years old. As I said in an earlier post on this subject I am going to recommend the modified rack to my customer. However I am going to check into finding other racks that may work with the ERA 289 car for my benefit and possibly for yours in the future.
Since the first Cobra my father and I built in the 80's till now we have been modifying cars to make them more serviceable. safer and more fun to drive. From building some of the first aluminum fuel tanks to adding power-steering to cars that the manufacture said could not be installed, to installing larger brake set ups as well as updated master cylinders for safety we are always looking for ways to make the cars we build better. I might point out that most of the things we have done to kits over the years now show up as standard equipment in the kit cars being sold today.
I never did say that anything was wrong with what Bob has done with the front end of his car or any other part of it. My only question was why use a 20 year old part for a new car and as I also posted earlier in this post if I do find something that will work for the car other than the Subaru rack I will pass that information on to Bob and he can do with it as he sees fit.
I am not sure why I have to keep defending myself on this issue. All I wanted to know was what the other rack ERA was that is used for the kit and what was done to it because I did not want to go to all the trouble to track down and rebuild a 20 year old rack when a new one in my opinion would be a better choice.
I have cut down racks before and that is not hard for us in my shop as we have access to a very large machine shop with some of the latest equipment. One of the things I enjoy doing is figuring out how things work and how to make them better.
I do this in my free time and not at my customers expense.
As just one more example of what we do and can do to help others, we sat down with Randy Hunter of Hunter kit cars and helped him redesign his frame to fit more engine and trans combinations in a few hours on a Saturday afternoon. We did that on our time and our dime to help him and all of his customers in the future get a better choice of options on his cars. So what was the harm in that?

Sincerely,

Bruce Edwards · #17 (**permalink**) 02-28-2004, 05:55 PM

Rick,

THANK YOU!! You get it.
Just for the record we did look at some circle track racks for our demo car, the 4.6 Hunter we built, and they were all so expensive we sat down and made our own. Like I said I like to change things around and find new ways to solve problems. After all we put a 4.6 in a Cobra that was not ever made to have one.
Thanks for your input. It is nice to see that someone else out in the Cobra world understands why we do what we do.

xcobraj · #18 (**permalink**) 02-29-2004, 04:51 PM

Somebody leave a window open...Getting a little chilly in here

ERA Chas · #19 (**permalink**) 03-01-2004, 05:09 PM

Bruce,
Thank you for the extensive reply to my comments. It makes for a compelling ad for your business.
Like Rick and you, I too "get it". I have been steadily improving my ERA, in both materials and techniques for a long period of time. I, too have a professional shop and complete equipment, and my enjoyment is much like yours.
My concern and the focus of my comment was essentially, satisfactory equipment or alternatives already exist from ERA, and your customer would be safe and dollars ahead without the need for you to re-engineer a system.
However, you go on to explain that you perform this service at your own expense of time and resource and you receive great satisfaction creating a new solution.
After your explanation, I now completely understand and fully agree.
The distinction is that Rick and I modify and improve our own cars, [it's "what we do"] and you perform a service for others.
Get it?

Bruce Edwards · #20 (**permalink**) 03-01-2004, 05:54 PM

Chas,

I am glad we can come to an understanding on this. It was never my intent to get anyone upset with my question. Seemed harmless enough to me when I posted it.
As you can see in this post my customer "TampaFla"has followed this and has said he is going to go with the ERA Flaming River Rack. That is just fine with me and I feel it is a better choice.
I am still going to take a look at the frame to see if I can come up with something different. As you pointed out "It is what we do".
I do perform a service for my customers, it is how I make a living. Part of that is also being happy with what I turn out of my shop and taking pride in the fact that it is the best I can do for the customer.
Glad I got a few folks to understand my position.