overheating 427 sideoiler - Page 4

steve meltzer · #61 (**permalink**) 06-15-2004, 06:13 AM

Allan A. thanx for the pictures....looks really good, and original. When this gets sorted out, I'll talk to Bill about that, but no one, including me thinks it's the problem. And like Tony, I don't think that taking the t-stat out, and replacing it with the restrictor, will save the day either. We may know this PM, as it's first on the agenda after my friend John Dillman and I finish our traditional pre-garage dinner of greasy KFC. s

RICK LAKE · #62 (**permalink**) 06-15-2004, 06:34 AM

steve meltzer Steve before you get a gun and shot the car, will you try this, take the thermostat out of the engine and go to pep boys or autozone and get an 180 thermostat The housing needs to be 63-65 mm Take a good look the openings there are different sizes, DON'T get a high flow one. Get the largerest one you can, you will have to grind a mm or 2 off the edge of it, for a fix. drill an 1/8 hole in the top of it for air. Don't forget the gasket

There is about 1/4" differents between the housings where the coolant passes through. I had to do this with my car. You will see that temp drop 20-40degrees in a heart beat. Try this before you pull the motor. Call me if you have any questions I will walk you through it. 732 254 3536 Rick Lake Ps I gave you the part number on an earlier thread. I thnk that was the right one.

steve meltzer · #63 (**permalink**) 06-15-2004, 09:55 AM

Rick, thanx again for your diligence. I have your previous post, just had hoped to avoid pulling that %&*^%& tank for the fifth time. s

RICK LAKE · #64 (**permalink**) 06-15-2004, 10:51 PM

Steve M Why should you have all the fun??

Now your getting to the good parts

Rick Lake Ps I did mine 4 times and 2 intake pulls to get it right. Also 1 hour of grinding the cast out of the intake coolant ports.

200mph · #65 (**permalink**) 06-17-2004, 10:15 PM

Steve, I have a FE from Southern too but not on the road yet. Discovered a bunch of packing like material inside the surge tank, had to dig it out. If you have the same stuff in there, your radiator could be plugged adding to your misery. Coming loose after 2 hours on the engine stand, is a long shot I know, but you always find things in the last place you look!

Terry

steve meltzer · #66 (**permalink**) 06-17-2004, 11:28 PM

i can see how that might happen. i've checked the tank and it flows fine. I pulled the water pump and you can't see the impellers as they are inverted. we did a little mock up bench test on the WP, and it did seem OK, the radiator flows great, at least with a garden hose. I took out my t-stat and put Parham's restrictor back in (at his request), and will test it tomorrow PM. I just came in from the garage and doing the WP and surge tank (4th time for that SOB!). I'm whipped and heaed for the sack. Acid test tomorrow, and I'll post the list. thanx steve

Chaplin · #67 (**permalink**) 06-18-2004, 12:09 AM

Steve-
I also have an FE from Southern and I run a 180 t-stat and 14# cap, and the motor runs very cool, I don't think the temp gauge has ever gone above 85C, regardless of ambient temp or traffic conditions

Here's a thought, have you checked to make sure that your temp gauge is accurate? If your temp gauge is reading erroneously high, you might be fooled into thinking it's overheating by watching it dump coolant, when in reality it may just be getting to the proper fluid level.

For example, wven though my motor never ran hot, when I first ran it, it dumped coolant all the time and every time it did, I added more. Eventually I stopped adding coolant and eventually it stopped dumping coolant. Now it never dumps coolant or runs above 85C. Also, follow the advice about air pockets- jack the front of the car up as high as you can get it, run it for a little while and burp the air out and try to see what comes out. I read once that someone jacked their car up, burped the system, and then let it sit for 24 hours, did it again and got more air out.

Good luck.

steve meltzer · #68 (**permalink**) 06-18-2004, 06:00 AM

I'll reburp it this PM before I drive it, so it will sit for about 20 hrs. This has been so consistent that I doubt that's seeking it own levels, and the coolant is at the level of the baffles. Temps also confirmed at the T-stat housing (as it were) with an IR gun. The car reminds me of a '67 'vette where the timing was way off...but this has been checked 3 or 4X...unless the timing tape was put on wrong...thanx steve

steve meltzer · #69 (**permalink**) 06-21-2004, 09:39 AM

Well, here's a little followup on the overheating sideoiler, for those of you with an intractable sense of curiosity. With the WP and surge tank back in the car (and the restrictor requested by Parham at Southern with no thermostat), I was just ready to road test her, when I decided to run another coolant pressure test with the Stant unit graciously loaned by Teddy at the nearby O'Reilly. The test shows a relatively quick leak down (lost about 4-5# in 10 minutes). No leaks anywhere (put the car on the lift as well) and listened several times with a long rubber hose (really, just an HMO-approved stethoscope), and heard no leak. I re-tightened all the hose clamps, etc, but still lost pressure and again, no obvious external source. ?? Head gasket??. thanx for your input. steve

Cracker · #70 (**permalink**) 06-21-2004, 09:46 AM

If I were you I'd send it back to SA and let them figure it out. Sorry - I know it really sucks!

steve meltzer · #71 (**permalink**) 06-21-2004, 11:36 AM

Tony, Southern has been very willing to stand behind their work; a fact that I appreciate and may well utilize. Though my friend John and I have spent a bunch of time on this, I just hate to admit defeat. I also hate to send the car out and risk any collateral damage to it in shipping, time in the shop, etc. (The law of "unintended consequences" seems to continuously haunt me!) It's already made a return trip to the Kirkhams to fix the foot boxes, and I'd be embarassed to sent it back to SA when if it turned out to be something minor, tho' elusive in elucidation (cool alliteration, eh!). One thing is very sure...it's gotta be a weird deal, nothing straightforward. Tha'ts been the axiom for this car and project. steve

mr0077 · #72 (**permalink**) 06-21-2004, 11:46 AM

Steve, maybe it is a head gasket...that is a lot of pressure loss for a cold engine with no visible leaks. Here's some things to check: listen around the "air" (expansion) area of the surge tank for an air leak rather than a coolant leak; also, check at the water pump shaft and bolts (but you should see coolant coming out there); check to see if your oil level is overfull, it could be coming up from coolant leaking into the sump (not good); and finally, pull the plugs and crank the motor over to see if coolant has leaked into the chambers.

DonC · #73 (**permalink**) 06-21-2004, 12:14 PM

Steve:
Why not give Bill a call and see what he might come up with.
DonC

RICK LAKE · #74 (**permalink**) 06-21-2004, 12:52 PM

Steve Meltzer Steve send a private e-mail with a phone number I can call after 7:00pm est Was the motor warm when you did the test? The gasket on the slant pressure tester do not seal well sometimes. How must pressure did you but into the system?

Shoot me an e-mail and we will figure it out. A restrictor is for a race car not a street car. There is no flow adjustment to help warm the motor or cool the coolant because of constant flow. I high flow thermostat is better than any restrictor, if a restrictor was so good, why doesn't every car have one it's cheaper than a thermostat?

Let's fix this pig.

Rick Lake

steve meltzer · #75 (**permalink**) 06-23-2004, 06:43 AM

Finally got back to the car last nite and, at Southern's request, used the restrictor in lieu of the T-stat, though no one thought it would save the day. Using the Stant coolant system pressure tester, the system again fairly quickly lost pressure (again, about 5# loss in 10 minutes). With another observer to confirm my findings, we found no leaks and no clear evidence of a leak after carefully checking all possible areas (tank, WP, hose, connectors, Temp sensor in the manifold, etc.)

Fired the car up and again, a rapid rise to about 105C. The car was sitting in my garage with the throttle changing constantly between idle and about 3K. (even got a personal visit from my friendly police that a neighbor complained about the noise from the sidepipes!...my ex was right, I'm no better than a common criminal!)
Decided to see if there was any air in the system, tho' it was checked earlier, and, viola, bubbles came from the sensor housing. Raised the front end of the car, re-bled, and got the same result everytime....even with the system bled thoroughly, firing up the engine resulted in new "air" in the system! Didn't matter if the car was jacked up to "bleed" it or not...same thing. Seems like maybe a bad head gasket, with the creation of combustion gases within the coolant. I can't explain the data in any other way, and I'm confident that this isn't a T-stat/restrictor issue, the coolant moves well in the tank with the cap off, and I have bled the system a number of times, both on and off jack stands. thanx steve

mr0077 · #76 (**permalink**) 06-23-2004, 07:28 AM

Steve, hate to say it but I think you're right, sounds like a head gasket. There is a kit available like litmus paper that will detect the presence of combustion byproducts in the coolant, I guess you could confirm it with that stuff. If you can't find it at the local parts place, call a good radiator shop (West End Radiator located at I-10 and Westcott did the test for me). They maybe could test a sample of coolant or tell you where to get the test kit.
Ugh, hate to hear this, but that recurring air in the system and the very fast temp rise are the classic symptoms of a blown gasket. And we were hoping to see your car at the next meet!
Keep us up to date...

steve meltzer · #77 (**permalink**) 06-23-2004, 11:07 AM

I'll try to give them and 4 Seasons Radiator shop a call. Both Autozone and Napa sell a test kit that changes color in the presence of combustion gases. thanx again. s

steve meltzer · #78 (**permalink**) 06-24-2004, 09:18 PM

I still haven't solved this dilemma, but thought it would be worthwhile to review all of the posts and advice again. In so doing, I think I'm better prepared to give it some wrench time this weekend. In case there is any ambiguity, Bill Parham and Louis at Southern have been very, very helpful in assisting me in my attempts to solve this problem...generous in their advice, and reassuring in their professional attitudes. As previously noted, Bill has already said that he'll take the car back for evaluation and repair if I can't get it figured out. Just hope I can get her back on the road without accepting that generous offer. I'll post the list when I get some wrench time in, and the heavy rains here in Houston stop, so I can get on the road for some real data. thanx to everyone again. steve

SCOBRAC · #79 (**permalink**) 06-24-2004, 09:48 PM

Ok... call me nuts, The last engine I had in my garage was a running 428 which I was selling. It sat here for a week while the buyer came up from LA to get it. While it was on the rolling stand I found every time I moved it it puked coolant all over the floor... So I stuck a shop rag in the water pump to get it to stop.

Pull your hoses. I think you might find an extra shop rag someone forgot to mention.

steve meltzer · #80 (**permalink**) 07-02-2004, 05:05 PM

Sorry I haven't written sooner, or posted on the website, but I haven't had much time to do anything with the car. I think I know what's wrong, but can't verify it yet and will post the list as well when the problem is solved. Can't think y'all enough for your help and interest. Have a good holiday. steve