Oil pump broken??? Help!

ridelikehell · #1 (**permalink**) 06-16-2004, 06:38 PM

Yet another problem here...

This started by the fact that I have not been getting any readings from my oil pressure guage...thinking that maybe I might have crushed the line in tightening the compression fittings, I took the line out and found that it's fine...So I fired up the engine without that line in place and I've now realised that the block is not pumping out any oil at all? The engine is a 1989 Ford 302...and I had the hose run to the outlet right beside the oil filter...My question is whether or not there is a way to confirm that the oil pump is actually pumping, or is it just for some strange reason not pumping out that hole???

Any help would be greatly apreciated!

--Dave.

Cobra20646 · #2 (**permalink**) 06-16-2004, 06:59 PM

Dave,

First, don't start the motor anymore!

Off the top of my head, either the pump drive shaft is broken, or the pick up tube has broken off the pump.

ridelikehell · #3 (**permalink**) 06-16-2004, 07:07 PM

so theres no other way to check the oil pump asside from that pressure port?

Rick Parker · #4 (**permalink**) 06-16-2004, 10:14 PM

The bypass in the pump could also be stuck open.

Rick

rr454 · #5 (**permalink**) 06-16-2004, 10:35 PM

Dave,, I am not real familiar with SBF, but if you have an old distributor laying around dismantle it down far enough to turn the oilpump drive shaft with a drill. You will have to cut the advance mechanism off the shaft and grind off the drive gear teeth to make it work. Then spin the shaft with a drill and you should "feel" the resistance if it is pumping,as well as the gauge psi increasing. If it does not, add 2-3 liters of oil to bring the level up over the pump body .and if the pressure increases then you do indeed have a broke pickup tube, but do run the engine at this oil level as it could hydraulic lock.

Hope this helps.
Dave

trularin · #6 (**permalink**) 06-17-2004, 04:50 AM

rr454, ridelikehell, guys,

You can run the oil pump with a nex socket on a 1/4" drive.

What ever you do, DO NOT RUN THE ENGINE!!!!!

As an order of process, fix one problem at a time.

Just my $0.02

Edbo · #7 (**permalink**) 06-17-2004, 05:05 AM

One other factor here....the oil pressure tap is downstream from the filter. If you can't build pressure as described above, change the filter before you start tearing down the engine and try it again.
Do you have a remote filter setup and/or cooler?

BTW, spin the pump counterclockwise with the drill.

Ed

sharpe 1 · #8 (**permalink**) 06-17-2004, 05:17 AM

The best thing to do is drop the oil pan and have a look see. You will have to drop it to fix it anyway.Most likelt the pickup screen has fallen off.(?) Did it ever have oil pressure or did it just loose oil pressure all of a sudden?

ridelikehell · #9 (**permalink**) 06-17-2004, 07:47 AM

I'm still a little confused on the whole taking the distributor out and priming the pump from there?...wouldn't the gears on the distributor just not turn because of the camshaft?...and I'm assuming that the oil pump is actually driven by the distributor then?...

Edbo; it's a brand new filter too, nothing has ever been run before, and no, I'm not running a cooler or a remote filter...

Sharpe; the engine never had oil pressure at all...

I think that either way I'm going to end up pulling the pan and taking a look so I think I'll just skip all the "testing" procedures and put in a new pump, pickup etc. just to be on the safe side...

Thanks for all the help everyone you've come through yet again!

blykins · #10 (**permalink**) 06-17-2004, 08:14 AM

Yes, the pump is driven by the distributor.....The oil pump drive shaft engages the pump and then is driven by the end of the distributor shaft.

Cobra20646 · #11 (**permalink**) 06-17-2004, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ridelikehell

Sharpe; the engine never had oil pressure at all...

Dave,

Not to make you feel stupid...... priming the oil pump/engine via the distributor hole is as common as.... well let's just say it's a wise thing to do with a fresh engine.... BEFORE you light it off.

The gear on the cam mates to the one on the dizzy. On the end of the dizzy, just below the gear, is a coupling that engages the oil pump drive shaft.

More than one person has put in the dizzy and not coupled up the oil pump shaft..... can cause exactly what you're seeing.

You can buy a shaft that fits your electric drill motor and stick it down the dizzy hole to engage the oil pump shaft. Turning it counter clockwise will operate the oil pump, and you can see the results by watching the oil pressure gauge and the oil being pumped up into the heads via the push rods..... have to have the covers off..... And this way you confirm that the oiling system is up to the job, and have primed the engine prior to firing it up.... the first few seconds after firing up an engine is probably the hardest on it, as the surfaces that need oil don't receive it until the pump comes up to pressure.

Hopefully the "few" times you have started your "dry" engine have not caused you any serious problems.

Good luck locating this gremlin.

- Jim -

sharpe 1 · #12 (**permalink**) 06-17-2004, 09:05 AM

It is possible someone forgot the oil pump drive shaft and didn't put it in at all. This is easy to over look.

ridelikehell · #13 (**permalink**) 06-17-2004, 12:16 PM

Ok I've just pulled the pan and Sharpe, you were right...the pump driveshaft was never installed...Lesson learned: never let someone else do the work for you...

...So now, how can I tell if the bearings are screwed?...In total the engine has run for about 5 minutes all total over a period of about a week with no funny sounds or troubles so I really don't think that there's a problem...but how can I check to be sure?

Thanks all!

blykins · #14 (**permalink**) 06-17-2004, 12:19 PM

While you got the pan off, pull one of the main bearing caps. You can tell right then if it's scored or worn.....you got any shavings in the oil?

blykins · #15 (**permalink**) 06-17-2004, 12:21 PM

The thing is though....after I think about this....the bearings will not tell all tales.....if there has been no oil to the top of the engine, the cam lobes are probably worn along with the lifters.....needless to say the rod bearings are probably not in good shape.

You had someone build this engine for you? Was it an engine shop? Reason I'm asking.....if it's trashed, you'll have some recourse.

ridelikehell · #16 (**permalink**) 06-17-2004, 12:23 PM

no i had a friend help me with it...

I guess i'll just play it by ear and go from there...

Thanks again

Cobra20646 · #17 (**permalink**) 06-17-2004, 06:20 PM

Oh man.... bummer. Five minutes of cumulative running time!!! I'm hoping that any damage is light. If it were my engine, after your friends funeral, I'd pull the entire thing down and check and replace as required. Just too many variables to deal with..... rod and main bearings, piston skirts, cam lobes, ...... I don't know what your investment is, but I wouldn't take the chance of running it with the possibility that you'll spin a bearing or seize up the thing.

Sorry Dave, wish I could be more optimistic.

- Jim -

ridelikehell · #18 (**permalink**) 06-18-2004, 10:28 PM

Alright, as I said before the problem was indeed that the driveshaft had never been installed...since I was in there I put in a Ford Racing high volume pump, and a new pickup just to be safe...
After that I put the pan back on, filled her up and pulled my distributor to make sure everything was ok...
Everything is perfect now with the pump except now I'm trying to put the damn distributor back in and the stupid thing will not go in...I marked it and I have it going in excatly the same way that it came out, but it almost seems like it's getting stopped on the top of the driveshaft...

Any ideas on this one would be great!
Thanks again!

Rick Parker · #19 (**permalink**) 06-19-2004, 12:13 AM

Twist the hex drive shaft about 30-40 degrees using a 1/4" socket or an old distributor shaft and then attempt to reinstall the distributor. Keep trying, be sure the rotor lines up with the correct terminal on the dist cap.

Rick

blykins · #20 (**permalink**) 06-19-2004, 05:26 AM

Rick's right...you'll just need to turn the oil pump a little bit so the distrib will slide down over the drive shaft.

You did put the shaft in from the bottom up right? There should be a little metal ring that acts as a flange.....you want that to be on the bottom....not sitting on top of the driveshaft guide hole in the block....or else when you pull the distributor out later on, it will come right on out with it.