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06-15-2004, 06:05 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto,
Ont
Cobra Make, Engine: Aurora AC slabside, red on red, 302, 5 speed
Posts: 30
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Not Ranked
Overheating cured, now its dead!
Now that I got the overheating solved I took the car for a short drive, it developed a small leak in the rad hose which sprayed the engine pretty good, I stopped and fixed it then started my drive again to get it home...never made it. The car just stopped. There is nothing for power at the ignition at all, the instruments do not register, starter does not spin, signals, wipers etc do not work but the headlights come on! I had a problem similar to this years ago and it ended up being a ballast resistor so that will be my first stop, any other ideas out there?
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Speak softly and carry a big V8
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06-15-2004, 06:11 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Shasta Lake,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 26,597
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Not Ranked
Just a suggestion, but since you said it sprayed water all over the engine, check all of your fuses. Could have shorted out a wire and blown a fuse.
Ron
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06-15-2004, 06:21 AM
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Shade Tree Mechanic
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: La Plata,
MD
Cobra Make, Engine: - Unique - 302 - 4 spd. -
Posts: 680
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Not Ranked
Don't think it's the ballest resistor. If you don't have any power to things when you turn on the ignition switch, check the fuses and wiring between the ignition switch and the battery feed. Headlights are not controlled by the ignition, so the battery feed is good. Check the junction where to two feeds ( to ignition sw and headlights) come together and check from there.
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- Jim Harding -
- Capital Area Cobra Club -
- Just another day in Cobra Paradise -
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06-15-2004, 07:03 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto,
Ont
Cobra Make, Engine: Aurora AC slabside, red on red, 302, 5 speed
Posts: 30
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Not Ranked
I have force fed myself to become a "cooling troubleshooter" so now I need to do the same with the ignition I guess. The first step for me last night were the fuses and I have the ceramic type, which is not really relevent in this instance, but they were all fine. Because it was late I did not do an exhausive trace but I was looking for any type of line fuse and did not find one. Keep in mind I am an accountant not a mechanic so logic rules with me.
I will take the suggestion and start at the source and follow the power through....If I keep this up pretty soon I will be contributing to this forum with suggestions!
__________________
Speak softly and carry a big V8
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06-15-2004, 09:56 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Shasta Lake,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 26,597
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Not Ranked
Your first problem is using logic. Having these cars in the first place is illogical. And so far as in-line fuses, I do have some in several of my leads which are also fused at the main block.
Cobra20646 had a good suggestion. Make sure that you have power to the ignition switch before going off in all directions with the leads.
Ron
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06-15-2004, 06:47 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto,
Ont
Cobra Make, Engine: Aurora AC slabside, red on red, 302, 5 speed
Posts: 30
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Not Ranked
I have checked power to the starter, alternator and followed it over to the starter relay. There is power going into the relay so I assume it should also be coming out...logic....is this correct? Could this relay be the cause of no power to the ignition?
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Speak softly and carry a big V8
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06-15-2004, 07:50 PM
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Shade Tree Mechanic
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: La Plata,
MD
Cobra Make, Engine: - Unique - 302 - 4 spd. -
Posts: 680
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Not Ranked
You just lost me.... if you have a Ford engine.... or maybe you have an aftermarket starter?
Battery positive lead usually goes to one post of the starter relay (solenoid), and when the solenoid is energized by the ignition/start switch, power then goes to the starter.
The same post on the starter solenoid where the battery connects, should also have a wire going to the alternator charge output. There should also be a wire that then goes through the firewall and under the dash, to the fuse block.
This wire will power the switch for the head lights via a fuse, and possibly other devices like horn switch, brake light switch, and other circuits that are not controlled by the ignition switch.
It will also supply power to the "battery" terminal on the ignition switch, again usually through a fuse. The ignition switch should power things like the ignition box/coil, wipers, radio, and other things that only function when the ignition switch is ON. Another terminal on the ignition switch is the one that supplies power to the starter solenoid so you can start the engine.
Depending on how your car is wired, the above circuits may not always comform the way I outlined. But to make the engine run, you have to have power to the ignition switch.
Some cars use what are called fusable links. This is just of piece of small gauge wire in line with a larger gauge wire that will burn out when subjected to excessive current, like a short circuit. They are usually very close to the main battery feed, at the terminal on the starter solenoid. Maybe if all the fuses are good, you have a fuseable link that went out.
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- Capital Area Cobra Club -
- Just another day in Cobra Paradise -
Last edited by Cobra20646; 06-15-2004 at 08:03 PM..
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06-16-2004, 07:33 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto,
Ont
Cobra Make, Engine: Aurora AC slabside, red on red, 302, 5 speed
Posts: 30
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Not Ranked
Thanks Jim,
This will probably make you cringe but the car has a Chev 327 in it. It was built this way in the UK back in 86 but will be converted to a Ford 428 this winter. I am trying to get a summer out of it as it is. The relay is a Lucas unit along with a lot of other things in the car. It was professionally built and the quality of the car does reflect that, problem being there are a lot of British discontinued parts in it.
I have sourced this part via the internet in the interim and it is in fact it is a starter relay so from my limited knowledge of electrics I am going to guess if it has power coming in (it does), it should have power out (it does not) to the ignition switch. The ignition switch currently has no power at it.
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Speak softly and carry a big V8
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06-16-2004, 09:10 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Olympia/Lacey,
WA
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast. 514 / 6 speed Richmond overdrive
Posts: 1,981
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Not Ranked
Lucas.. the prince of darkness
At least that's the inside word from those in the know..
The fusible links I have seen are a plastic chunk in line with a major power lead.. they often look melted or blackened if they have failed. But maybe not always.. look for this first. You can replace it at any good parts store.
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James Madison, father of the Constitution, said, "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." He also said, "No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare..."
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http://www.standdown.net/index.htm
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06-16-2004, 10:49 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Shasta Lake,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 26,597
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CC,
You are correct about if the relay has power going in it should have it going out. But it has to operate first to cut the battery power through to the starter. That is what the two small winding leads are for. When you turn the ignition switch to the start position, it will put power through the winding and operate the relay, thus putting power to the starter. You can take a remote starter button and go from battery to the S terminal on the Ford solenoid and when you press the button it will operate the relay and turn the motor over. That will tell you if the relay is good. Make sure the car is out of gear unless you have a lockout switch. I use my remote starter button all the time for messing around under the hood. I know mine isn't a Lucus but if it would help I will take a picture of it and post it so you can see what I am trying to say.
Ron
Last edited by Ron61; 06-16-2004 at 10:55 AM..
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06-16-2004, 12:53 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Southwest,
WI
Cobra Make, Engine: Shell Valley, Mopar thingy (small block of course)
Posts: 2,215
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Not Ranked
I always jumped the posts in the relay with a screwdriver to make sure the relay or solenoid were good. Make sure it is in neutral and teh parking breake set when useing a remote starter switch.
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Brent Dolphin
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06-16-2004, 03:03 PM
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Shade Tree Mechanic
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: La Plata,
MD
Cobra Make, Engine: - Unique - 302 - 4 spd. -
Posts: 680
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally posted by cancobra
This will probably make you cringe but the car has a Chev 327 in it.
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No Problem..... I'm an old Chevy fan
Quote:
Originally posted by cancobra
I have sourced this part via the internet in the interim and it is in fact it is a starter relay so from my limited knowledge of electrics I am going to guess if it has power coming in (it does), it should have power out (it does not) to the ignition switch. The ignition switch currently has no power at it.
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With the Chevy, (if I remember right?) the battery cable goes right to a stud on starter motor mounted solenoid. From that same post, a wire will go the the alternator, and another will be the main feed to the rest of the vehicle electrics. This is probably the one you'll want to trace out to see where it goes, and if it has "issues" somewhere along it's path.
The starter solenoid also has another wire connected to another smaller stud that comes from the ingnition switch "start" position. This wire energizes the solenoid and puts 12 volts to the starter motor.
Sounds like you have another relay or starter solenoid in the mix. What wire connections do you have to this one? It may be that it is another starter solenoid, but no longer used in that capacity. (?)
Let us know how you're doing and if we can offer any more help
- Jim -
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- Jim Harding -
- Capital Area Cobra Club -
- Just another day in Cobra Paradise -
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06-17-2004, 06:52 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto,
Ont
Cobra Make, Engine: Aurora AC slabside, red on red, 302, 5 speed
Posts: 30
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Not Ranked
Yes there is another relay in the mix here which is an odd looking thing which is a plug in with 8 poles! It is a Releco MR C solid state unit and it has a direct lead from it to the ignition switch. The other leads go to the ballast resistor. The starter relay has now been replaced in the meantime and did nothing to help this specific problem. I have checked and traced every possible wire and now am about to give up and just tow it to an electrical shop. I am sure it is a simple problem as it happened so suddenly but hours of investigation still has me where I began.........
__________________
Speak softly and carry a big V8
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06-18-2004, 07:08 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto,
Ont
Cobra Make, Engine: Aurora AC slabside, red on red, 302, 5 speed
Posts: 30
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Not Ranked
Well the problem has been solved by doing everything but the obvious and simplist!!!!!!
I was my "hot fuse". The car has older glass fuses and there was a pinhole in the end where the solder had pulled off that held the center wire in place that runs through the center of the fuse. When I looked at the fuse it was not blown so I assumed it was fine. I took it out again and held it up to the light and could see the smallest hole, replaced it and back in business. I still think in the longer run I have an unworkable fusing/relay system so am now thinking of changing it. Thanks again to all who took the time and made the effort to assist me, I sincerely appreciated it.
__________________
Speak softly and carry a big V8
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06-18-2004, 07:28 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rehoboth Beach,
DE
Cobra Make, Engine: FFR Daytona Coupe done to replicate CSX-2299 at the '64 LeMans
Posts: 641
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Not Ranked
good lesson, never assume a fuse is good because it looks good. Always test them with an ohms meter.
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06-18-2004, 08:18 PM
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Shade Tree Mechanic
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: La Plata,
MD
Cobra Make, Engine: - Unique - 302 - 4 spd. -
Posts: 680
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Not Ranked
How ironic.....
Just about the same thing happened to me when I attended the first DVSF. While in parade, my engine went dead. To make a long story short.... all the glass fuses looked good, but I pulled out the ignition fuse anyway and it came out in two pieces..... the fuse element had broken from one of the end caps, probably due to under hood temps and melted the 'glue' that held it in place. I 'borrowed' a fuse from the windshield wiper circuit and was back on the road..... that fuse is taped to the side of my tool box, first time I ever witnessed a failure like that.... and now you have one too!!
Glad you found your problem without pulling out all your hair
Happy motoring
__________________
- Jim Harding -
- Capital Area Cobra Club -
- Just another day in Cobra Paradise -
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06-18-2004, 10:53 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Olympia/Lacey,
WA
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast. 514 / 6 speed Richmond overdrive
Posts: 1,981
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Not Ranked
My 1974 Scout 2 still has the original glass fuses
I hate the buggers. I have a Painless wiring harness and when I get the time during my restoration it's bye bye to the antique fuse pad and time for modern spade fuses!
__________________
James Madison, father of the Constitution, said, "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." He also said, "No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare..."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.standdown.net/index.htm
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