All's well that ends well (sort of)

[hoppy]

Last night had a very frightening experience while trying to get my ERA up off the ground X 4 wheels.

I drove the fronts up on steel ramps and it seemed to settle in the cradle well although the tires are a bit wider than the ramps.

When jacking up the rear using a wood block along the frame rail between the aluminum trunk and the fiberglass at the rear of the car with the jack centered (now I know why Cobras have striped down the middle)

When the rear was up pretty good (I know what you are thinking) the car and jack rolled back off the ramps and the car is now in the nose down butt up position (cut it out you guys) on a pair of jack stands that I wish were a little futher back.

No damage, nobody hurt, but wow what a scare. Had my son helping me. Glad to be able to set a good example of safe work for him.

Anyway, I would love to hear from some experienced hands the best way to get the car up high enough and safe enough to crawl around and find a pesky oil leak.

I have 4 very sturdy jack stands, a pair of apparently too narrow ramps and a pretty good floor jack to work with. The jack will not get the car high enough for the stands in one lift however.

Thanks in advance for any advice as I could use a little help and a lot less drama tonight.

[RedBarchetta]

Terry,

If there is anyone here that does not admit to something like that happening to them at least once, they are either lying or have never changed a spark plug.

I've found the best technique (at least on my SPF) is to jack up the front end first. I make sure the car is in gear (my parking brake is crap). I use a small swatch of carpet on the jack to maximize clearance and minimize scratching. I then jack up the front end and place two jack stands (on their LOWEST setting) under the front frame rails. I then proceed to the back of the car and my floorjack barely wedges between the shock mount and the gas tank. I lift up the back end and do the same (two jack stands on their lowest setting, right on the frame rails). I then go back to the front and raise the car enough to increase the height a couple notches on the stands. Then to the back and repeat until I'm satisfied.

This technique adds maybe 5 minutes to the process, but it's safer and always yields the best results for me.

-Dean

[ENTDOC]

Spend 900 dollars on a roll on lift.They are very safe and easy to use,not as slick as a 4 poster but way less expensive and serve most purposes well . chuck

[hoppy]

Originally posted by RedBarchetta


Terry,

If there is anyone here that does not admit to something like that happening to them at least once, they are either lying or have never changed a spark plug.

I've found the best technique (at least on my SPF) is to jack up the front end first. I make sure the car is in gear (my parking brake is crap). I use a small swatch of carpet on the jack to maximize clearance and minimize scratching. I then jack up the front end and place two jack stands (on their LOWEST setting) under the front frame rails. I then proceed to the back of the car and my floorjack barely wedges between the shock mount and the gas tank. I lift up the back end and do the same (two jack stands on their lowest setting, right on the frame rails). I then go back to the front and raise the car enough to increase the height a couple notches on the stands. Then to the back and repeat until I'm satisfied.

This technique adds maybe 5 minutes to the process, but it's safer and always yields the best results for me.

-Dean

Dean,

Followed your suggestions and the car is now "riding high" on 4 heavy duty stands. Next question is: I bought some "dye" to put in the oil that is supposed to reveal the source of an oil leak under a black light. This requires running the engine for about 5 minutes. I am a bit concerned about running the engine while up on stands. They are very sturdy and well placed (I think) at the 4 corners of the frame. I doubt that the car would vibrate off the jacks, BUT... before I fire it up would like some more enlightened opinions. I'm definatly "up in the air" on this one.

Don't mind admiting that I need feedback on this. Contemplating the consequenses (sp) of being wrong on this one is sickening.

[RedBarchetta]

Terry,

I would not recommend running the car while it's up in the air. My 392 is running an fairly aggressive roller cam and this car shakes way too much to trust it to jack stands.

Since this dye you are adding to the oil will take a little time to circulate, why not just pre-arrange with a local shop to drive the car there on a Saturday morning and have them put it up on their lift? Bring an extension and plug in the black light. I'm sure the mechanics will dig looking under a "real" car for a change anyway!

Good luck!

[Clois Harlan]

This may not work for you but I have done it several times:

I too start at the front of my cobra and jack up one side at a time with the trany in gear. Once the front of the car is up I roll my floor jack under my pumpkin at an angle because my fuel cell sets low. I jack my straight axel up both wheels at a time until my tires are about 6-8" off the ground. I use the bigger 4000# floor jacks under my rear axle. I then move to the front and raise my front end a little higher using 2x4 blocks on the floor jack.


I have ran my car numerous times on jack stands without any problems especially after replacing brake pads, clutch, throw out bearing, changing oil and filter etc. I too have a fairly agressive cam (592 lift and 232 dur) but my engine is completely balanced. I think the key is to be reasonable don't run your RPMS up to 2000 or 3000 because anything can happen and while my car is running I am sitting behind the wheel just in case.

By the way what kind and grade of oil are you running?


By the way Hoppy I have a very close friend that had another friend at a track event here at Tulsa that checked his brakes after the event. He pulled all 4 wheels off and after checking everything he put all four tires on and only put the lug nuts on hand tight. He then loaded the car in the car hauler and took it home where it remained until he took it to DVSF IV a couple of weeks ago. You got it, during a poker run he was driving through Columbus, Ohio hit a bump, the Cobra bounced up and the left rear wheel fell off. Fortunately, he was going fairly slow and there was no damage other than to his pride. Things are going to go wrong at times it is how you deal with them that matters.


Clois

[tommyboy]

Ditch the car ramps!

[hoppy]

Clois, Dean Et All,
The ramps are history unless Pat needs them for his woody. I had a night to sleep on the concept of running the engine while up on the stands and it just doesn't seem to offer the kind of risk/reward ratio I consider acceptable in my business (the basis of the little that I do know) and therefore have "dreamed up" an alternate scheme. I think I will use some 2 x 12's under the already well off the ground wheels and let the weight of the car sit on them while still offering clearance to roll my A$$ under it. I can keep the stands and jack in place as a "fall back" safety plan. I have no plans to be under the car while it is running regardless of how it is supported. Now way I'm gonna let my 16 year old become the benficiary of all my toys, tools and life insurance quite yet.

I am currently running and leaking Pennzoil 10-40. I plan to switch to Mobile 1 upon resolution of the drip, drip drip that is now protectiong my undercarriage from oxidation and my garage floor from traction. Don't even ask about having rolled my big Triumph through some of it while taking it out of the garage and then grabbing a big hand full of throttle. The lump on my A$$ and dent in my driveway are testemony that maybe I should have stuck with pedal cars long ago.

Sorry to hear about your friend loosing a tire. That must have been an awful experience. I am pretty militant about checking the safety wires on my knock-offs after reading some warnings from Tom Kirkham about side loads Etc.

I remain open to suggestions as well as constructive criticism.

[John Poling]

I rarely use stands anymore, after once pushing a 5.0 off of a set onto my brand new transmission that I conveniently stored out of the way under the car. Of course the stupidity was in full force that day about 12 or so years ago. With the e-brake on, I put the front end on ramps and the rear on stands then proceded to lean into the engine compartment via the front bumper. Long story short, I bought a new bellhousing after I lifted the car off of the transmission and then threw the stands in the trash.

I now have 2 sets of ramps that I use. I have found that the best way of lifting is to do one wheel at a time starting with the front two and then going to the rear, of course the e-brake is set too.

John

[RedBarchetta]

Terry,

Using the 2x12's is a good idea. I have photos and a Word document from my Corvette days that shows how a guy built some really slick wood ramps for his C4 (early 90's) Corvette. I plan to build a similar set for the Cobra so that everytime I park it, I'll have unlimited crawl space to clean-up and inspect without jacking the car each time.

If you're interested, e-mail me and I'll send the photo and Word attachments. I'm working remotely today so give me a day or two to reply.

Regards,

-Deano

[hoppy]

Hi Deano,
Whenever you have time to send the pics will be great. I have too many projects going to ever finish one much less start another, but I love to look at that stuff. Hell everyone has to go to the can sometime.
Thanks,
Terry

[RedBarchetta]

Terry, got back to the office later this afternoon (photos and text were on the wrong laptop ).

Here are a few photos and the original text that I plucked off of corvetteforum.com some months ago.....



As you can see, the ramps themselves come apart and leave just the pedestals. This allows for easy access underneath from the sides. I have a few more pics available, but these pretty much show what they look like and the (long) description below tells you how to build them.

RAMPS

Below is the list of materials & a description of the parts. Unless noted I used 3" grabber screws (these have the course drywall type thread on them.) I predrilled all the boards. I drilled the pass through board & didn't drill the anchoring board. I can't think of a good way to explain this. My total cost was just under $75.00. I will get some close ups of the pedestals & post them tonight or tomorrow. Note: I made my fronts & rears different heights to accommodate the slight slope that my garage has. If you don't care about compensating for or if you don't have a slope you can make the fronts & rears the same (either design).
Materials required per SIDE
Front Pedestal
2pcs - 2 "x 10" x 23" (top & bottom)
2pcs - 2" x 6" x approx. 9.5" (width of 2"x 10")
1pc - 2" x 6" x 20"
1pc - 2" x 4" x approx. 9.5" (front stop)
2pc - 2" x 4" x approx. 7" (used to support bridges)
Attach short 2"x 6" pcs to the long 2" x 6" form an "I" so the 6" part is up/down. Next attach a 2" x 10" to the top and bottom the attach the stop to the top front of the pedestal & the last two 2" x 4" to the rear of the stop at the edges for the bridge support.
Rear Pedestal
2pcs - 2 "x 10" x 23" (top & bottom)
2pcs - 2 "x 10" x approx. 9.5" (width of 2"x 10")
4pcs - 2" x 4" x 20" (side supports)
4pc - 2" x 4" x approx. 9.25" (used to support bridges & ramps)
Attach the 2" x 4" to each corner of the 9.5" 2" x 10" (the cut part of the 2" x 10" should be on the sides of the unit not up/down. The 2" x 4" need to be installed so the 4" part will be up/down when the pedestal is in use. Put the top on the unit & the front & rear bridge/ ramp supports.
Bridges
You will need to do some math on this one. Mine are 6' but really need to be about 6'2". Measure the distance of the wheel base (center of hub to center of hub). Subtract 23" from this number & it will tell you how long the bridges need to be. Buy 8' lengths & you will be covered.
1pc - 2" x 10" x measurement found above
1pc - 2" x 4" x measurement found above
4pcs - 2" x 4" x 9.25"
2pcs - 2"x 4" x 5.75"
Attach the 2" x 4" to the bottom of the 2" x 10" centered left to right.
Build the bridge supports as shown in the last picture (they are at the top). 2 long 2" x 4"s with the short one sandwiched between. I made these a little longer than this to start with and trimmed them down for a good solid fit. I marked the bridges in 1/3 of the way from each end also so I would know where the supports need to be placed.
Ramps
Again you will need to do some measuring. Place a pedestal in front of the car. Slide it toward or away from the car until you find the minimum distance the unit needs to be from the car to allow the air dam to clear. Hint: I cheated a shade. My driveway has a slight incline & I used it to my advantage. By approaching the system with it uphill the ramps can be made a little shorter. If you would ever be using the system in a downhill situation take that into consideration.
1pc 2" x 10" x 8' (cut down to above figures)
The ramp supports were made from the drops from the other pcs. I have no clue what they measure at the moment. I used a couple pieces of 2" x 6" & several 2" x 4"s.
The system in pinned together with .375" x 4" bolts. Two on the front & rear of each bridge & two on each ramp. Before drilling the holes for the pins put the system together & mark the ramps, bridges, & pedestals to each other, that way it will go back together later on with out confusion. The bridge support holes are drilled straight down toward the floor while the ramp pin holes are drilled perpendicular to the ramp angle.
Cut angles on the ramps supports on the rear pedestals for a bigger contact area. I also cut the same angle on the front units so I could use them alone if needed.
I think that should get everyone close. Also I'm doing this from memory & quickly so let me know what I need to clarify....if anything

If you want to add more strength you can seal the whole thing in epoxy.
This would help stop any splits.
Also try to keep the grain of the wood parallel to the ground so that's it's in compression.


It is std. 2x material from Home Depot. "Finished" stock is 1.5" x 9.25" on a 2" x 10"
Epoxy would help. A grip modifier would be need on the driving surfaces.
I measured the distance between the insides of the tires & added 2" to it & placed the ramps that far apart. (note: the fronts & backs ARE different). I screwed a 2" x 4" across the pairs of pedestals to maintain the distance. That's what I get from working from my pictures & memory !
Trust me the system won't collapse. I tossed a pair of 2" x 4" in front of the front pedestals & braced off the back wall. Later I plan on putting pinning holes in the floor.

[hoppy]

Thanks Deano,
While woodworking has never been exactly my medium = never drove a nail without bending it, I think I might be able to do something like this. If you get around to posting or PMing the other pics great.

Being a bit on the lazy side when it comes to these projects I am wondering if it wouldn't work out ok to just cut some +/- 18 inch sections of railroad ties and jack up the car till they slid under the tires and called it a day.

[Michael C Henry]

While working on mine ( for the last two years) I had my car up on frame stands ,each stand in a car skate .If i were doing anything aggresive Id Remove the roller platforms.Once when I needed room for doing something at the rear I moved the rear frame stands forward.When I let the hydrualic jack down I went under and was pulling on a wrench when the rear started to come down .I had moved the jack stands to almost the exact balnce point.I pushed the car back up into place and jacked up the rear again and moved the rear stands further back. I think I may have had the engine removed at that time.

[John Poling]

Mike H,

Did you have to change your shorts after that? I probably would've had to.

John

[zipzip]

I used the jacks in the wheel dollies to support the frame as I was prepping it. The problem I had was that 4 points do not make a plane, so one was always loose. Once the engine and rear end were in, it got a lot more stable.

I'd say if you were handy with a welder, you could weld a raised support on top of the dollies to lift the car higher. Match the height with the max lift you get off of the jack and voila.