Just Bought A Viper V10 Need Info...

MAXVELO · #1 (**permalink**) 10-25-2004, 01:17 PM

So I got the motor, tranny, computer, harness airbox etc etc. Does anyone know how to modify the harness to run in a non viper application? Its a Gen III motor with 241 miles on it. It was on the Dealers lot during the Florida hurricanes when a telephone pole fell over on it. Totalled it out.

relaxinrob · #2 (**permalink**) 10-25-2004, 02:09 PM

Talk to someone that has already done this.....call DV....or PM him.

MAXVELO · #3 (**permalink**) 10-25-2004, 03:15 PM

WHO ARE THEY?

AC Cobra · #4 (**permalink**) 10-25-2004, 05:09 PM

Its "Double Venom" a Cobra with a Viper engine. Just send a private message to Double Venom. Or check out his web site at www.DVSF.com.
Good luck

got snake? · #5 (**permalink**) 10-25-2004, 05:15 PM

we have a member with a Viper motor.

I was in this car the last two weekends. WOOHOO!!!

Here is a picture of his motor stuffed in a EM.

http://www.ozonasgarage.com/unloadingday.htm

sid

Turk · #6 (**permalink**) 10-25-2004, 07:31 PM

Excaliber · #7 (**permalink**) 10-25-2004, 09:48 PM

DV, "Double Venom" (think about it), "Classics by Elite" shop owner. "Jay" is the current head honcho around there, might speak to him about your project as DV is "trying" to retire,

DV built at least two "DV's". Heres a pic of the original, and the 2nd one featured tilt forward hood and was VERY VERY cool indeed.

The Viper V-10 is the only non Ford engine I would even think about letting get near MY replica.

http://www.cobras.com/elite/docs/home.cfm

CobraDan · #8 (**permalink**) 10-26-2004, 02:53 AM

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/t43097-15&pagenumber=1

Check out this thread. This Cobra in the above thread was at DVSFIV completed and for sale at $50,000, it might still be for sale.
Dan

trularin · #9 (**permalink**) 10-26-2004, 06:24 AM

MAXVELO, if I may ask, what did you have to give to get the drivetrain?

MAXVELO · #10 (**permalink**) 10-26-2004, 11:10 AM

A guy who works with the insurance company had it on Ebay and it had been going for a day or so. I asked the Guy what it would take to end the auction and he took 8K for everything! I know, I cant beleive it either!!!!! Best part is its a Gen III. All the ones shown are Gen I and II's. I dont know if this is good or bad?

Sizzler · #11 (**permalink**) 10-26-2004, 05:46 PM

The Gen III engine is the best, with the possible exception of the intake.

The best combo would be the Gen III engine with the old (red, dual throttle body) intake.

The new intake was designed to fit under the lower hood. The old intake will flow better and support the better breathing heads. I do not know what, if any changes (most likely non) might be needed in the computer if you swap intakes (not all that expensive, they go for $200 or so on ebay fairly regularly...just make sure you get the fuel rails and injectors...the injectors are unbelievably expensive if you try to buy/replace them through 'ordinary' channels).

What happened to the trans?

MAXVELO · #12 (**permalink**) 10-27-2004, 08:54 AM

Nothing, why....

Double Venom · #13 (**permalink**) 10-27-2004, 09:49 AM

Max....
I surely hope you are a wiring guru of sorts, as you will need to be. From what I know, you will have to use the Gen. III ecm and ALL the EPA attachments, including the 02 sensors. (Gen. II was 450 hp while yours is closer to 500 hp.)

Are you putting this in a Cobra or something different? The biggest problem in a Cobra is the huge space needed for the bellhousing AND movement.

Sizzler is so right about the intakes. Worst part about the Viper engine! Although pretty, they really kill the torque! If you want to go through the motor, and are not that familiar with it, let me know. I can give you a few references that can easily put that motor over the 650 hp range with all basic parts. Want to get up to the 750/1,000 hp? I can set you up for that too! Please do NOT get involved with 'Hennessey MotoSports' in any way shape or form! (Multiple lawsuits going on as we speak, including criminal.)

Very important! Did the motor injest any water, or was it simply tree/impact damage?

8K, IS a great price by the way, but only if it was srictly'impact' damage that totaled it.

Sizzler-Do you really think the Gen. II dual intake manifold with two throttle bodies is better? I thought the whole point of the new intake was to not only make it simpler but this is what they, the "Toy Factory" came up with to gain most of the additional 50 HP. That and a new cam. Not a debate! Just really curious on this one.

DV....taking a few moments out from the 'DV by DV' novel.

PS...Do NOT discard the "battery temp. sensor! You will need it. Fuel pump will be another problem, but is overcomable. (Is that a word?)

MAXVELO · #14 (**permalink**) 10-27-2004, 11:45 AM

DV, yes this is taking the place of my 514 which I had the mishap 2 mos. ago in. I will need all the info I can get. I am a Engineer at Intel Corp. so the wiring shouldnt be too much for me. Do you know where I can get a schemo for the wiring? Right now I would just like to get the thing in a dn running, I will do HP upgrades later so any info would be great.
Do you know the differences between the GenII & Gen III wiring harnesses? I have the harnes and the computer in a box but without any schemos it means nothing. I was also told that I could get a plug & play harness from a Dodge dealer as they were selling Crate motors for non Viper applications. Sould I buy this one or can mine be modified? Also can I use a set of headers from a GenII? There is a set on Ebay right now that is incomplete and the price is right. Mine currently has the cast iron exhaust manifolds for the SRT10 Truck...
Thanks Gary

P.S. Sizzler, I tried to send the photo on my last thread but I have the entire drivetrain. the Truck took all the impact on the bed with a telephone pole & bent the frame, engine is untouched....

CobraDan · #15 (**permalink**) 10-27-2004, 12:11 PM

http://www.mopar.com/m_perf_parts_pr...010&itemID=264

Call the Mopar Performance Parts Tech Line and speak one-on-one with one of their knowledgeable tech experts.

Telephone: 248-969-1690
Days: Monday - Friday
Hours: 8:00 am to Noon, 1:00 pm to 5:00 pm ET

Dan

Double Venom · #16 (**permalink**) 10-27-2004, 04:37 PM

MAX,
Now the work begins. No way shape or form will the OEM Exh. manifolds work in a Cobra frame. I have however, NOT tried to put one in a West Coast Cobra. Knowing West Coast is a little bigger than most, you might get real lucky.

Wiring: You will NOT find any 'aftermarket' engine harness for this engine. They were not made, at least by Dodge. You are certainly welcome to call 'Mopar', but they will tell you the same thing.

When we, "I" finally forced Chrysler/Dodge to release the motors to the public, i.e., "Crate Motors", they just came out in September at the VOI and declared they will NOT, turn the Gen. III into a 'crate' motor. Essentially ending any help or support from them.

Bottom line is; you're back where I was in '97. It can be done! Don't be discouraged, but if you are or get to be totally frustrated, I'll buy your complete drivetrain, ECM, fuel pump, harness, radiator, driveshaft say for 5K

? You can keep and part out the rest of the body parts, wheels, etc. What do you think-Hey?

Back to serious, buy "BOTH" manuals from Dodge. The tech. manual will be the biggest help on the wiring. With your wiring back ground you should be able to figure it out. You will end up cutting at least two thirds of the harness out, but be carefull when it comes to the temperature and air flow harness. Water is also tricky until you figure out that the engine has two temp. sensors. Another hint is that the (engine) fan has two speeds and NEEDS to be hooked up as such. (it will run fast at low speeds as the engine warms up, then as the car speeds up it will slow down.)

The speed sensor in the transmission is also critical. If the ECM fails to pick up the speed sensor it only thinks you are ideling! The "skip-shift" in the transmission can be bypassed. It's a real pain anyway. (I think Gen II and II are the same here.)

Headers: I make my own. Be prepared for a hefty price tag on those puppy's

I have my machine shop cut out the head plate using the Viper exhaust gaskets, from there I build them up into either a 5 tube header flange, or, and I like this better, a single header plate with a 3" tube, that transverses into a 4" as it goes into the sidepipes.

If at all possible use the Viper radiator and fan! You will not have any heating problems!

Fuel Pump: If you can, use the Viper pump. You will have to cut your gas tank to install. It too is a major hassle. There are aftermarket pumps that are now available but will run almost $400.00 plus, plus lines and fittings for both ends. Me? I go the $400.00 route!

When you're ready, if you want I can go into the speedometer problem with you. (No mechanical hook up to the Viper T-56 6-speed)

MAX, the Viper motor will weigh in at least 150 lbs less than your 514. It will also blow a stock 514 away

You know the old saying, 'been there--done that'?

One more thing before I go on into tomorrow, I can completely install and remove the engine and transmission, as a unit from the hood opening in a Classic Roadsters Cobra, there fore I am assuming you could too.

Keep in touch, I look forward to seeing, hearing progress reports.

Ed 'DV' Combs

Excaliber · #17 (**permalink**) 10-27-2004, 07:56 PM

Sure Ed's gonna retire, any day now!

You sound like a kid in a candy store, all excited about Max doing the Viper thing!

Good for you Ed, I wish the best for you.

Ernie

CobraDan · #18 (**permalink**) 10-28-2004, 05:55 AM

http://www.munropi.com/singleview.asp?itemID=436

Sizzler · #19 (**permalink**) 10-28-2004, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Double Venom

Sizzler-Do you really think the Gen. II dual intake manifold with two throttle bodies is better? I thought the whole point of the new intake was to not only make it simpler but this is what they, the "Toy Factory" came up with to gain most of the additional 50 HP. That and a new cam. Not a debate! Just really curious on this one.

Yes.

Though the red one weighs at least twice what the (let's call it) white one does. It is probably a moot point; the thrill and accomplishment will be in getting the engine, as it is, installed and running in another vehicle. BUT, if you eventually want the maximum performance, the red intake flows better and will support higher HP levels. It also can be extrude-honed for even greater flow and capacity...I would be very very frightened to have the white one subjected to any kind of pressure, be it forced induction, or extruded putty. A runner would burst for sure they're so minimally-walled. Think of the white intake as Ford's 5.0 cammer. It's nice as it is, but if you want to go bigger, stronger, harder, well, don't. It just won't take it.

You do realize that, in a Cobra, the Gen III engine will sound like the Gen II? The Gen III got a crossover exhaust that 'corrected' the exhaust sound.

Good luck.

MAXVELO · #20 (**permalink**) 11-09-2004, 06:41 AM

Can I make the assumption that all I need to make this puppy run is a MAP sensor, MAF sensor, TP sensor, O2 sensor etc? The fuel pump I have is a SX performance setup w/filter so my pump isnt lacking any PSI power. what did you have to do to your harness (what did you delete and what did you use? Also do you know the differences between mine and yours? I have'nt had a chance to go to the dodge dealer for any info from thier manuals but I'd just like to know what Im in for. By the way why does the computer care what the battery temp is? I cant imagine that your harness is that much different than mine. The only difference I can see is you have two seperate throttle bodies and I have one. Do you have 2 seperate tps's or does it only read one? Also why 4 02 sensors? can they be wired to trigger off 1 or 2? Im just comparing it to the Accel DFI system requirements.