Running without antifreeze

[harritg]

Does anybody run their car without antifreeze to improve the cooling system performance. On my ERA #203 driving in traffic can sometimnes be a challenge during hot summer days. I have come accross a Red Line product called Water Wetter. The label says the product contains corrosion protection which is one of the primary functions of Antifreeze.
I am thinking of running plain water and a couple of bottles of Water Wetter during the driving season. The 427 I am running has been bored .40 over so I sure would not want this mixture to allow corrosion around the cylinders. Any thoughts on this product or maybe another one out there?

Waiting for spring in Idaho.

[427sharpe]

I have used water wetter for years, and I think it is a great product. As far as antifreeze goes, they put that on the bottle for the guys who run mostly track (antifreeze is a no-no). I use 70% water and 30% GO5 (Ford's new coolant, it's red) and mix in the water wetter. I have had no corrosion problems, do not overheat in Texas summer heat and never freeze in the winter (but i doubt ours are as cold as yours!). If you decide to use GO5 or DexCool, be SURE to flush out ALL the green coolant, because they will turn into an obnoxious jelly if they mix.

[scottj]

Originally posted by harritg


Does anybody run their car without antifreeze to improve the cooling system performance.

Because my car is not exposed to sub-freezing temps I don't run anti-freeze. In a dynamic system such as a car cooling system, nothing transfers heat better than pure water . For corrosion protection I use Prestone Super Anti-Rust. Water Wetter and other surfacants might make you "feel" better but they do not improve the coolants performance.
Scott

[casaleenie]

I don't know how it works but it does... Water wetter.....

[Rick Parker]

I switched from ethelyne glycol coolant & water to distilled water & Super water wetter (yellow gold) and the temps dropped an honest 10 degrees. I have a Fluidyne aluminum radiator and cast iron heads & block. I have not experienced any corrosion that I am aware of.

Rick

[SCOBRAC]

Anti freeze is not a good conductor of heat. Water is better, that said if you live someplace it freezes antifreeze will keep your engine from being destroyed, particularly an older V-8.

Water wetter breaks the surface tension of water allowing it to fully conduct heat away from your engine. You've all seen water beaded up on a flat surface? Why do you suppose this happens? It's under tension. Ad water wetter... That same small bead of water flatens out like a dime or flatter.

[Turk]

Another vote for Water Wetter.
Something that comes in a small bottle and makes the claim it makes, is automatically regarded as some sort of snake oil.

I use two bottles of it with distilled water exclusively.. I gathered my own data, and tested different combinations on a engine stand.
Antifreeze and water
Antifreeze water and Water Wetter
Water only
Water and Water Wetter.

No questions about it. Stationery engine, same amount of airflow, same ambient temperatures. No variables.

Water Wetter score as much as 20 degrees of improvement. nay sayer suggested by the time I had gotten to testing it with Water Wetter the engine had sufficiently broken in and wasn't creating as much heat!.

I drained the stem once again, and tried all above combinations once again..
Same results.

before you dismiss Water Wetter as some sort of a gimmick, give it a try. It MUST be used with water only. Had no appreciable effect on the temperatures when added to my existing Antifreeze/water solution in the engine.

TURK
R.S. Independent Testing labs.

[Bob In Ct]

Not to be a doubting Thomas but it seems to me that an engine with a 180 degree thermostat should run at 180 with or without Water Wetter. Are you saying it will now run at 160? How does it fool the thermostat?

Bob

[Ron61]

Harrtig,

To start off with an 180 degree thermostat won't open until that temp. and all you have is a small flow of water through the bypass hose,which will bring most engines up to temp pretty quick. That is all the thermostat is for, it has nothing at all to do with determinging what your engine will run at when driving. Listen to what Turk said. He did the tests and they proved the same as most of the other tests results I have seen in car magazines.

Rick,

Where did you get the Super Water wetter? I can't find it up here at any of our auto stores but haven't checked the two largest ones yet. NAPA out here claims they never heard of it.

Ron

[casaleenie]

Originally posted by Bob In Ct


Not to be a doubting Thomas but it seems to me that an engine with a 180 degree thermostat should run at 180 with or without Water Wetter. Are you saying it will now run at 160? How does it fool the thermostat?

Bob

Hot or cold????

How do a thermos know

[harritg]

Thanks for the input on my question. It seems the Water Wetter and plain water could be my best solution to improve cooling capacity. When we drive these cars and run out of cooling system capacity the 180 degree thermostat is wide open. What we are trying to do is lower the unregulated temparture during extreme condidtions form maybe 220 to 210 degrees. With this mixture you would see no difference in engine temprature when the thermostat has control under normal heat loads. I still question if I will have enough corrision control with this mixture. I would hate to destroy a $15 K engine trying to improve cooling capacity!

Tom

[DAVID GAGNARD]

I run one gallon of anti-freeze and fill the rest up with rain water,probably about two gallons of water,never really measured the amount.........

351-W with an aluminum Griffin radiator and high flow alum. water pump....

I have run just water and have found with a gallon of anti-freeze my temps in city driving goes down by 10 degrees......

for the race car we are NOT allowed to run anti-freeze,only water wetter or similar products,but I do not run a thermostat,I run the water restrictors,kinda like a big flat washer with a hole in the middle,takes a little expirementing to get the right size,but once you hit it,its done....

David

[scottj]

I’ve also done the “tests” and while the results are by no means scientific, they showed absolutely no difference in coolant temps with Water Wetter. Magazines test (excluding Consumer Reports) contain few facts and many paid advertisements.

You may (or you may not) want to take a look at what these guys have to say. http://www.stewartcomponents.com/tec...ech_Tips_4.htm
They are the foremost authority on high performance automotive cooling systems and helped developed the technology used under the hoods of every Cup, Busch, and Truck team, as well as in many other motorsports today.
Discounting their research and development based on magazine article (or Club Cobra thread) would be like disregarding the Mayo Clinic based on the advise of a faith healer. But hey, never underestimate the power of faith.

[Woodz428]

Water Wetter has been used for years in Road Racing Bikes. All the bikes I've maintained, it worked great in and the riders/owners loved it.
I have a little different opinion on the use of rain water though (unless you are talking about another product I am unaware of instead of the natural stuff). Rain water is full of all sorts of agents(elements) that can create corrosion and I think you could open yourself up for problems down the road. Any water I use in a cooling system is Distilled, it eliminates any introduction of corrosion causing elements into the cooling system.

[Woodz428]

An Addendum to the Stewart posting above. I have a few customers that really like the Stewart coolant, I have mixed opinions. It is extremely viscous and is very "oily" feeling, and if it was used on a track and had a spill it would make the track very greasy. That's one of the benefits that Water Wetter is supposed to address, a less slippery spill, should it occur. The Stewart coolant seems to, and is verified by their own literature, make temps run a little higher.But as we all know heat builds power, so that's the reason for my mixed opinions. It's been about 4-5 years since I've read the AMA rule book, but they used to forbid coolants other than water with an additive for the track. It was to eliminate slippery wet downs.

[Turk]

Scott,
Not pretending to be an authority or anything and certainly don't have a product to sell. I am not a distributor for Water Wetter.
I trust my own test over anyone else's.

The engine is fixed to a engine run stand in my own driveway. No vairables, no traffic, no stop and go, no shifting. Same RPMs, same place same gasoline and oil. Just sitting there running at 3000 RPM for a perod of time. Timing is not changed, nothing is altered. As I indicated above, I tried all those combinations. I wasn't trying to prove wheteher one was better than the other combinations. I had my engine and was still waiting for ERA to be delivered. I did this for over a period of 3 months. I would do it out of boredom. I would come home from work and just for fun, I would start the engine and listen to it run.

I must have ran 10 gallobs of gas through that thing. It became a joke, my engine builder commented I would have the only engine that needed a valve job BEFORE it got installed in a Cobra.Since I was playing with it, I felt it would be of some value to try out different coolant combinations. That is how I stumbled on to Water Wetter.

Do not fret, my good friend Pat doesn't buy into it either.

Temperature reading taken at the block, and at the headers as well as the fixed SW gauge at the engine stand..

I have no idea about the accuracy of the link you provided. Different than myself, their web site seems to greet you with some cooling products they sell. I sell no such products.

You say you did your own tests. How did you do yours?

TURK

Only thing I can not vouch for, if there is any damage to the engine on a long term by not using antifreeze. I don't know if Water Wetter has enough lubricating qualities for the water pump. They say it does.

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Turk,
My iron beast 460 just cooks in the summer. I run water only at the drags no big deal it's only running for a minute. However getting caught in a summer traffic jam for 1/2 hour will push lots of boiling water out my overflow. If I run 50/50 antifreeze it will not boil the mixture and even though it gets hot,the water stays in the system. What the Nascar guys and SW guys didn't tell you is that they all run a very high pressure rad cap, not the street caps we have. The high pressure caps keep the water in the system and let the cooling work. On the street caps the water is blown out of the system and the engine overheats.
Running the engine in a confined cobra engine bay is completely different than on a test stand.
Just my experience.
Perry.

[uncltodd]

An interesting and fascinating thread!

A question from the sidelines...

I spent big bucks for a magnificent SB from KeithCraft, Plano, with aluminum heads and an aluminum intake.

I only want protection down to about 25 degrees, just below freezing.

My Backdraft will be garaged, but "things happen" sometimes.

I'm concerned about antifreeze compatability with aluminum.

Hey, I still remember alcohol-based antifreeze- don't go there.

I agree, pure water transfers heat better than an "off the shelf" antifreeze-water mix, (personal experience) but some coolant manufacturers push their "anti-corrosion" and "lubricant" additives.

I guess I'm asking for input on "compatability."

Thanks, guys.

UT

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Woodz;

I agree,distilled water is the best thing to run in a cooling system,especially with aluminum heads,I have a couple of five gallon buckets on the edge of my shop to catch rain water to use for different thing.........I used to use water out of the faucet when filling my radiators until a good friend that happens to be an FFA mechanic came by one day and asked me what the rain water was for???? Told him and he told me to use it in my vehicles instead of tap water,said he had been using only rain water for the last 20 years with no problems,so being I had it,I began using it,that's the only reason........In my application I have tried with and without anti-freeze and my car does run at least 10 degrees cooler with a gallon of anti-freeze in it............

UT,I would go to Wal Mart and read the back of every brand of anti-freeze they have on the shelf,I think most are very compatible with aluminum heads/intakes/water pumps,and offer some degree of lubricant for water pumps.....or better yet,contact your nearest Chevy dealer and ask what comes in the new Vettes,they have aluminum heads and I think the ZO cars have aluminum blocks............I'm sure GM has done "some" testing regarding the anti-freeze they use in these cars.......

David

[Don]

I checked the owner's manual for the Z06, which may or may not be the same for other Corvettes, but I would guess it is the same for specs such as coolant:

Quote from page 6-23:

A 50/50 mixture of clean, drinkable water and DEX-COOL ( R ) coolant will:

* Give freezing protection down to -34 F -37 C
* Give boiling proection up to 265 F 129 C
* Protect against rust and corrosion
* Help keep the proper engine temperature
* Let the warning lights and gages work as they should

NOTICE:

When adding coolant, it is important that you use only DEX-COOL ( silcate-free) coolant. If coolant other than DEX-COOL is added to the system, premature engine, heater core or radiator corrosion may result. In addition, the engine coolant will require change sooner, at 30,000 miles or 24 months, whichever occurs first. Damage caused by the use of coolant other than DEX-COOL ( R ) is not covered by your new vehicle warranty

However. there have been reported problems with DEX-COOL, reference the web site:

http://www.imcool.com/articles/antif...l-macs2001.htm

The web site for WaterWetter, there is a down load with the tech info

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp