Jag hubs are out, now what?

rdorman · #1 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 09:47 AM

Both rear wheels where a bit loose. When I took the tires off, the hub would slide slightly back and forth on the shaft. So, I pulled the hub. The spacer looks slightly abused but the hub/bearings looks fine. Do the spacers tend to get beat flat? After all, they are nothing but brass! Any thing else I should check out/do?

Thanks
Rick

Tom Wells · #2 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 10:27 AM

Yo Rick,

Here are some URLs that you may want to use:

ERA hub instructions

CWI - expert Jag rear services

If one of the hubs fails, it's no fun

Enjoy,

Tom

65 Blur · #3 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 10:29 AM

If there is any play, it's your bearings or shaft - s/b very tight.

I had the driver side bearing go out last year and after doing some checking, determined it was over my head to repair. I ended up going to a mechanic that specialized in British cars because there are so many specs / measurements involved on getting the jag rear right. After his inspection, we found several issues and got it back to new (not cheap by the way).

I have heard too many horror stories about these rear-ends failing at the worst times and didn't trust myself. Your call, but I recommend getting a pro to look at it.

Roy

rdorman · #4 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 11:55 AM

Any one know a shop in the Columbus area to check out the hubs?

Excaliber · #5 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 01:19 PM

It's not that the spacer flattens out, gets thinner, it's just normal wear and seating of the bearings and races in the hub. The spacer in question here is how the wheel bearings are adjusted. On the front you can turn the wheel bearing hub nut tighter or looser. No such nut on the back, so adjust bearing clearance by adding or subtracting the shim thickness.

.002 or "0" clearance is the spec. Very common on almost all Jaguars for the bearings to be a much looser fit than this. Think of it as having a loose front wheel bearing, not good if it's to loose but better loose than tight. With plenty grease it will run a long long time on the loose side. A somewhat "loose" bearing adjustment in the hub is not a big factor in the failure of the stub axle, hub assembly, etc., just my opinion. What IS "to loose" could be debated for some time.

Of course you can't go wrong saying a guy MUST be within specs, .002 or zero end play float. It's really not that big of a deal installing a new shim and they are readily available from Jaguar in various sizes.

I would be far more concerned with the possibilty that the race(s) don't fit "snugly" in the hub housing. If the races are "loose" they could "turn", this will ruin the housing in short order and could lead to big failure. If the races don't fit snugly (tight) the shim adjustment will not hold for long. If your having them proffessionally checked, check that race press fit first!

Former Jag mechanic.

RICK LAKE · #6 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 04:50 PM

rdorman Rick get the jag book. It shows you a step by step how to check the bearings and end play. You want .000 to .002 play. You can measure the end play on the movement and then just just add the differents to the shaft. Retork the axle nut put the wheel on and check the play of the wheel assembly. You may have to go to a Jag dealer and get a pack of .010 shims. Have you been greasing the hub housing? A high temp sythetic grease is what you want. When done right the end play should last 20,000 miles before a check is needed. If you are wearing the shim out, it is too loose in the housing and has been that way for a while. Rick Lake

rdorman · #7 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 07:58 PM

So if I am hearing this correctly, it is not uncommon for them to loose up over time? Everything seems fine in the hubs. The hub rotates nice and smoothly over the bearings. No signs of failure. Of course I have not pressed the hubs apart, just removed them. This is my first experience with the jag hubs and I want to be sure. Even the seals seem fine.

The spacers look fine (not like they are spinning or any thing) and the looseness slowly increased over time. I did not measure how loose they where, it was just enough to rock the wheel when holding it top and bottom.

One hub I had to press off, the other I was able pull off the splines by hand.

I do grease them annually with a good grease. Another question. In the body of the hub where the lower pivot connects to the a-arm, in the rear of the hub there is a hole that when you overgrease the lower fitting, grease comes spilling out. Should that hole be plugged with something or is that just a crude way of telling you it is full?

The rear does have about 28,000 miles on it and it has never been adjusted.

Thanks
Rick

RICK LAKE · #8 (**permalink**) 03-07-2005, 04:33 PM

rdorman Rick reassembly the hub assembly and check the play of he hub assembly. You will need a magnetic of visegrip to measure the play in the bearings. How loose is the number? Pull apart the axle end and measure the spacer. Add the play number to the spacer number and this is the new spacer you need. ERA has the list for the jag numbers for the spacer. I would add .002 pass the magic number and only tighten the axle nut to 120lbs. Then look for the hole in the axle to put the clotter pin through. I know jag puts alot of load on the bearings to hold everything in tolerance. If you have trouble, call me I will talk you through it. Rick Lake 732-254-3536. Where's Chaplin,

Hope he is working

RallySnake · #9 (**permalink**) 03-07-2005, 04:58 PM

Rick,

I had a similar problem, recently. It turned out that the hub shaft was spinning inside the inner race of the bearing. So, the bearing wasn't turning. This made the car feel like I had a flat tire when I was driving it. With the car jacked up, I could push the top and bottom of the tire back and forth about 3/8 of an inch. With my life on the line, I spent the $600 to have it fixed right.

After watching them use big powerful gear pullers and lots of penetrating oil and pounding with big sledge hammers for a long time to remove the bearings. It was money well spent.

Paul

rdorman · #10 (**permalink**) 03-07-2005, 06:04 PM

Rick, thanks! I am not sure what a "magnetic of visegrips" is but I do have a magnetic dial indicator base and dial indicator. I have read the instructions in the manual (although I did not check before I tore them down as I should of) and at the ERA site about checking the preload and believe I understand them. The current spacer is .132 (measured) on both sides. Chaplin...... yeah, where has he been??

Paul. I can feel nothing unusual when driving. Nothing at all. Everything sounds and feel just as it always has. I can move the top and bottom of the tire in and out but it is no where near 3/8"! more like 3/64" (although I have not measured it).

I have a call into Butch Capps to discuss....... we are playing phone tag at this point. So far, I am inclined to think that it is wear and tear at this point and needs adjusted.......................................... ..................BUT, I am open for suggestions, which is why I am asking YOU!!!

Thanks much
Rick

rdorman · #11 (**permalink**) 03-08-2005, 09:47 AM

I had a nice conversation with Butch Capps last night on this subject. His take, and I will try to be accurate, was that this is normal. As long as the bearings are good and the play is not excessive, leave them be. He also recommended against re-shimming them back to 0 clearence. His take was basically then you are asking the bearing and race to re-seat and that can lead to failure. And additional thoughts along this line?
Thanks
Rick

rdorman · #12 (**permalink**) 03-13-2005, 09:00 AM

RICK LAKE · #13 (**permalink**) 03-13-2005, 10:22 AM

rdorman Rick Sorry the mind is alot faster than the 2 fingers. Magnetic base or visegrip mount for the dial indicator. I wouldn't go with what Butch said about the play. Alot of play is going to wearout any set of bearing faster. If you repack a set of bearing on an older GM car with wheel bearing, there is a perload set than back off than retighen finger tight and put the cotter pin in the next closest hole. If this was true why would shims of .003-.010 than every .005 from .110 up? I would reset the endplay to .002-.004 and check with a dial gauge. I will look for my Jag book and see what they say about checking the endplay and adjustment. Loose endplay in the hub could cause perwear in the carrierand banging of the pinion shaft. I will get back to you Rick Lake Ps where's Chalpin, Wife must have him under control

rdorman · #14 (**permalink**) 03-14-2005, 09:42 AM

Thanks Rick, and everyone!

I put it all back together, mounted the dial indicator to the carrier and zero'd it on the face of the hub. Drivers side had .010 and passenger less than .002. So, looks like I will get a .008 thicker shim (.140) for the drivers side and leave the passengers side alone.

Rick

coyled · #15 (**permalink**) 03-14-2005, 12:20 PM

I broke 2 rear hubs on my cobra that I road race with slicks that were not adjusted correctly. I have them set correctly now but I do torque to 180 pounds. After 5 or 6 days on the track, I pull the cotter pin and both sides will take another 1/8th of a turn. I don't know why that is but I know if they are not tight, you can crack a hub. I pulled them apart inspected them, rechecked clearances and put it back together. Make sure its right and recheck it. That extra 1/8th turn I am seeing over time might be hub stretch or just race pounding, I don't know for sure? Bob Bacon has the same thing going on with his cobra. Scott

Tom Wells · #16 (**permalink**) 03-14-2005, 01:09 PM

Hey Scott,

It may not be hub, it's probably axle

See this reference:

Stub axle failure

Also as a not-necessarily related item but something to check see:

Hub cracks

You can get the PDF of the book with the details here:

Jag lovers book

Hope this helps,

Tom

RICK LAKE · #17 (**permalink**) 03-15-2005, 05:58 PM

coyled Scott You are crushing the bearings in the hub housing. The XJ book said 140 lbs. You may be stretching the threads on the end of the stub axle. You could crack that hub housing, it's only Aluminium. If you are hard racing you are going to get a little play. Are your hub carriers the orignials design or from CWI? If you are going to keep racing, You should go to billet hub carriers. I would also get chromemoly stub axles, driveshafts with safety hoops, differential cover with carrier cap supports.

Rdorman Rick you want a black spacer with a L code on it from Jag the size is .1385-.1395in that should put you right on the money. Rick Lake Ps I found nothing in the Jag XJ6 book about changing the spacers. It said to check, load bearings, check play and add spacer as needed to get correct end play. Spec in the book is .002-.006in. Hope this helps

SVO429 · #18 (**permalink**) 03-19-2005, 04:44 AM

Have a look at where the inner race of the inside bearing locates on the hub, we found one which had been flogged out due to not having a spacer at all, this surface was about .010'' under size, and causing the wheel to flop 3/8" top to bottom,this cannot be rectified by just changing bearings and spacer ,you have to replace the hub.
When you tighten the hub nut it pulls the hub up against a shoulder on the half shaft, tighten the nut all you like ,it will not change the clearance/preload on the bearings, the spacer does this .
When i state hub i mean the component the wheel is bolted to,and not the hub carrier

rdorman · #19 (**permalink**) 03-19-2005, 08:03 AM

The parts guy at the local dealer was such a snot I orders them from Terrys Jaguar Parts. I ordered the .138 and .142.... will decide which one mounted up.
Thanks
Rick

relaxinrob · #20 (**permalink**) 03-19-2005, 08:15 AM