Gel Cell Battery

Dwight · #1 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 02:54 PM

I HAVE AN A C DELCO 7 YEAR PROFESSIONAL PLATINUM BATTERY. BETTER KNOW AS A GEL-CELL BATTERY. THE 1ST DIED WITHIN 18 MONTHS, THE 2ND 12 MONTHS, THE 3RD 4 MONTHS. IS ANYONE USING A GEL CELL AND ARE YOU HAVE TROUBLE WITH THEM?????

weekendwarrior · #2 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 03:24 PM

Do you have a high output ALT. Gell's do not like high output, use AGM if you do.

Dwight · #3 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 07:20 PM

I have a standard 89 Mustang alternater. Volt meter says 13.8 volts. The last gel cell was driven about 300 miles.

weekendwarrior · #4 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 09:12 PM

13.8v is fine for a gell cell. I would have the charge system checked. I fried a gell with 14.4v constant output but 13.8v is within the limits.

Sorry can't help

Ron61 · #5 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 04:47 AM

I use the Optima red top battery and have had it in the car since 1997 with no problem. However on a gel-cell type I had in another vehicle, I noticed that it said when charging do not use the fast charge cycles. Recommended charging rate was 2 amps. Have you ever had your batteries on a charger?

Ron

jams · #6 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 05:34 AM

I don't remember the exact terms but some batteries are good for normal everyday use....meaning they don't discharge very much and others work better for deep discharging. SO if you have some type of voltage draw that routinely discharges the battery ....like a powerful stereo system, trouble starting the car or a misc. draw the battery will have a limited life span.

I just heard about it on one of those Horspower TV shows. Sorry I can't remember more details. Check your alternator output VS. your voltage use.

Dwight · #7 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 06:41 AM

My charger has a 50 amp, 10 amp and a 2 amp charge rate. I used the 10 amp. I had a problem with my alternator, but I got it rebuild. So, the alternator may have fried the last battery or I may have over charged it. I may put a acid battery in. But, I don't like the idea of an acid battery in the trunk. Thanks for the info, any more suggestions.

Dwight

Ron61 · #8 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 06:51 AM

Dwight,

The deep cell batteries I had were in my car trailer that I used to have. The Optima that I now use in the trunk is a solid core type and won't spill if you split it. And even on them, it says you should use the 2 amp charge. However they told me that I could use the 10 or 50 Amp if I needed to, it is just better to use the lower rate, but I believe that applies to most batteries. I have a couple of small, $29.95 battery tenders that I hook to mine during periods of un-use and they have worked great. Every so often they will kick on for a few seconds just to move charge through the battery. But they won't charge a battery that is down. And as I stated above, I have had the same battery since 1997.

Ron

392cobra · #9 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 07:01 AM

Ron,
Which Red Top Optima are you using ?
Model 75/35 w/ 720 cca or Model 34 w/800 cca ? Top Post

I am getting right at 3 yrs. (next month) on my wet cell and have considered more and more a Optima top post.

Roscoe · #10 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 07:30 AM

I'm using a red top Optima with a Powermaster 100amp alternator. I've had the battery for over 4 years and never had a problem.

Roscoe

Ron61 · #11 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 07:33 AM

Fred,

I am using the one with both the side and top posts. The side posts hook to the car and the top posts I cover except when parked, and they make it easy for me to hook the battery tender to as the side posts are toward the inner trunk wall and I can't get to them unless I unstrap the battery. The little plastic caps that came for the top posts are still working great and you can pick them up at any parts store such as NAPA.
I just went and looked and it is a Model 800U with 800 CCA. They have most likely changed the model numbers since I have had this one so long, but I am almost positive that a friend of mine got one of the same last Summer at our local Franklins Auto Parts Store.

Ron

392cobra · #12 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 07:45 AM

Is there some kind of formula to determine how much CCA is needed ? Looks like there are just two CCA's available,720 & 800. And two physical sizes.

Roscoe · #13 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 07:53 AM

I think more goes into the equation:

Length of cable
size of cable
type of starter
start retard

Roscoe

Ron61 · #14 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 08:03 AM

Fred,

I never used any forumla. And like Roscoe, I have a 100 amp alternator which has been checked and puts out 102 amps on the test bench. They have a Yellow Top but I am not positive just what it is so far as difference goes. Mine is about 10" by 7" by 7" physically.
Looking in my Jegs book I see the yellow tops have more CCA, than the red tops do. Physical size is about the same but they don't say anything about how well they will take the vibration. The red top can be mounted upside down if you want and won't hurt it. The two yellow tops they show have 850 and 900 CCA. The Yellow tops state that they are deep cycle and that may be why they don't say anything about you can mount them in any position. Go in to one of your auto parts stores and look at both and see which would work for you.

Ron

392cobra · #15 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 08:22 AM

What I have now is a group 34, 10" x 7" x 7". 700 CCA and has never missed starting.Just went out to the garage and looked.

So,I'll head out to Sear's and get a Red Top group 34 with 800 CCA. 100 more CCA than I have now.

Thanks y'all !

weekendwarrior · #16 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dwight

My charger has a 50 amp, 10 amp and a 2 amp charge rate. I used the 10 amp. I had a problem with my alternator, but I got it rebuild. So, the alternator may have fried the last battery or I may have over charged it. I may put a acid battery in. But, I don't like the idea of an acid battery in the trunk. Thanks for the info, any more suggestions.

Dwight

AGM Batteries

http://www.dcbattery.com/agmtech.html

Optima is one type. Good for vibration and they are sealed. They can be charged like a lead/acid.

P.S. Gell batts need a special charger, AGM uses the same charger as lead/acid.

cobralee · #17 (**permalink**) 04-13-2005, 09:25 PM

I've had the Optima Blue 1000CCA in my cars and I'm done wit them! They don't hold charges well at all. You just can't beat the Interstate Batteries for start up after long periods of not running the engine. I have them in all my cars.

G.R. · #18 (**permalink**) 04-14-2005, 11:31 PM

Deep cycle, ie. Optima yellow and blue tops and others of the same ilk are "deep cycle" batteries. They do not like rapid charge-discharge cycles, like most automotive alernators provide,they like a steady step-down charge through a voltage regulator. Deep cycle batteries are usually for use in the marine and RV environment, for use to power "house"needs, like refrigeration, cabin lights and such when the engine/generator is offline. They tolerate very "deep" discharges and properly re-charged can last for years.

It is not that the battery is "bad" in and of itself but that it was used for the wrong purpose that it was intended. Just because a battery is rated@ 700-1000CCA does not mean it is the right battery for the use intended. CCA is only an indictator of the batterys capacity.

AGM type are a very good choice for automotive use, similar to gell cell in that they are a sealed battery and can be mounted in most any position, something that can't be done with lead-acid batterys.

I would never use a deep cycle battery in a car and expect it to last for more than a year or so

I sailed and lived aboard for several years. My "house bank", the batterys used to power cabin lights, anchor lights, other demands, refrigeration/heat etc., were "deep cycle", the single start battery for the engine was a sealed AGM type. I had twin 100 amp alternators run through a step-down regulator. When the engine was run the alternators would initally rapid charge then the regulator would begin to kick in and start "stepping" down the input voltage until the batterys went into a "float" stage whereby the alternators input current provided the batterys with only as much current as they needed to come to a full charge, generally around 2-5 amps input.

Automotive alternators just rapid charge all the time so one needs a battery that can handle that, ie. some quality lead-acid(Interstate is one) or AGM type.

Roscoe · #19 (**permalink**) 04-15-2005, 05:49 AM

I have to disagree abit on the deep cycle. They are made for rapid discharge cycles. One of the main users of deep cycle are golf cart batteries that get discharged and charged daily. In other words they should be 'run down' and back up again on a regular basis or they will get a 'memory'.

Roscoe

G.R. · #20 (**permalink**) 04-15-2005, 04:05 PM

Roscoe, in a sense you are right and wrong, the caveat being if the deep cycle is discharged much below 12 volts then rapidly re-charged with out a regulated charge cycle they will fail far faster than a normal battery and deep cycles do not like rapid discharges such as that used in starting a cold engine. That is why in the marine world deep cycle batteries are not generally used as a starting battery. Nigel Calder is sort of a marine electrical guru and is highly regarded for his knowledge with 12v systems. Aboard typical cruising sailboats where battery power is your "electrical power grid", he recommends deep cycles for House banks and dedicated non-deep cycle starting batteries.
Deep cycle batteries do/can get "memories" if not properly maintained. But I'll bet you a dollar to a donut that if you take 2 batterys of the same size, one a deep cycle and the other a normal AGM or lead-acid type and run them through the start, draw, charge cycle such as an Automotive engine requires/uses, the deep cycle will fail faster than the other unless you have a charge regulator in the circuit.
After having sailed and lived aboard various boats in the last 25 yrs and 2 years sailing in Mexico I feel I have a more than passing knowledge of DC electrical systems and batteries. Lead-acid batteries do not like slow, deep discharge rates, deep cycles do, but they do not long tolerate rapid discharges for long before failing.

BTW golf cart batterys are normally deep discharged then when in the recharge proccess they are hooked up to a regulated type charger not one putting out anywhere from 50-100 amps continuosly like an automotive alternator puts out.