Ford GT-40 Crate Engine Info

[66rdster]

Hi All,
I posted this in the Small Block Talk forum and haven't had a response yet. I thought I'd give it a try here. Maybe someone knows about these engines and doesn't venture into the SBF forum much. Thanks for any info you can provide.


I'm fairly new hear and have been enjoying reading through all the information on this site. I am about to order a kit from Hurricane and I have to decide on an engine/trans combo. I am planning on using a T5 transmission, World Class with 2.95 first gear. I have been looking into various crate engines, thinking of building myself, and so on. I have been looking at the GT40 - 345HP engine from Ford. I'm not up to date on the Ford stuff and was wondering if anyone could provide any info on the GT40/T5 combo? I am mainly looking for info on what it will take to get this engine in and running. Can the front cover/water pump/balancer be used as is? I,d like to use a v-belt system. What year pulleys fit this engine? Can it take a mechanical fuel pump or do I need to go with an electric pump? Oil pan usable as is (front sump)? Does the flywheel that comes with it work with the T5? Will a stock (aftermarket HP replacement) Mustang clutch work. Will a stock early to mid 90's Mustang bellhousing work? Will the intake/carb distributor from the earlier 289/302 engines bolt right up? I guess to sum it up, what is going to take to use this engine? Also, if anyone has any pros or cons on this combo, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks in advance for your responses. I appreciate any info you can provide.

Mike

[351-EM]

Mike,

The GT-40 combo is a great mid range small block choice. The world class t-5 may be your weak point if you like to get on it quite a bit, but I am using a super duty t-5 in my 427W stroker and don't anticipate having any problems. I say that but with my luck..... The engine set-up from ford has the front cover that can accept a mechanical fuel pump, so either route is fine. The balancer is the 50 oz. mustang style and will work with most v-belt systems. I know that the march 3-piece pulley set-up works great with this engine. The oil pan is a rear sump model, but will work with most any Cobra replica, as there is no crossmember to get in the way. The stock bellhousing will work fine as well, and that is what I use (although I am going with a hyd. slave cylinder vice cable). The intake, carb and distributor will bolt right up, the only thing to consider is the distributor gear, as with a roller cam it must be steel not bronze. The only drawback is the water pump, as it is designed to used the mustang reverse rotation system. So that would probably be tossed. Other than that it should be a relatively easy and enjoyable engine. Let me know if there are any other questions you have, or if you need any additional technical info. I am full of useless information (and other things too).

Good Luck,

Chris

[66rdster]

Hi Chris,
Thank you very much. Thats exactly what I needed to know. Looks like it should bolt up without any problem at all. I'm still exploring other options. I have been looking into a 351W and a stroker 351 as well. I probably won't be getting into it too much, but you never know. I might look into the super duty t-5 as well. Thanks again for all the info. It really helped a lot.

Mike

[351-EM]

Mike,

Let me know if you do decide to go the 351W route. I have a complete 393 rotating assembly ready for ya. I changed my mind at the last minute and bought a 427W kit. It's that whole cubic inch inferiority complex.

Chris

[turnpike boy]

Uuhhh..........not to be confrontational - honest - but some of that info is mistaken.

The front cover does NOT have a mechanical pump mount point - you will either have to use an electrical or change the cover. Use the electric; it's not a big deal.

These are FRONT sump oil pans, and have a dipstick mount rivitted into them on the right (passsenger) side. You will have to either fabricate the stick or find something like a Milodon or -?- that will work. You can, of course, use the block entry stick point also.

With 305 ft/lbs of torque (see www.fordracingparts.com for more info) your T-5 will work just fine. Use this chart for plenty more info - http://www.fordracingparts.com/download/charts/029.pdf

The motor is set up for serpentine belts - meaning that the balancer has an integral 6 rib pulley and that the water pump is reverse rotation. The balancers are off an Explorer, or something like that. If you want to run v-belts you will have to swap water pumps and change the balancer since the pulley is one piece with the balancer.

Engine comes with a steel flywheel and is just fine for the T5. The stock Mustang 10.5" clutch is completely adequate. The stock Mustang bellhousing will work, altho you might want to consider a scattershield (Lakewood bellhousing) if you are into drag racing...for that matter, if you really want to drag race it you should get a better clutch set also. And, while there are some exceptions, pretty much any intake and distributor setup from the 289/302 series will work dandy. Chris is right about the distributor gear - use steel only. Not iron - STEEL. Bronze is workable but will wear out in real short order

I have about 9000 miles on my 302/345hp and it is truly great. Pump the gas pedal twice and it fires before two cylinders have undergone compression. Have run it to Ohio twice now, about 1300 mile av. round trip, 8+ hours each way and it hasn't so much as hiccuped. Rev limiter in the MSD 6AL set at 6200 - and it has bounced off it many, many times now....I'm really slow shifting in first and second. .

For the $$$ you cannot find a better bargain. Not fussy in any measure, minimal maintenance required, sounds great. You will want more power after a couple years, but what was that Chris said about going to the 427? Power is like heroin - just keep wanting more until............

[66rdster]

Hi Chris,
That 427W sounds like it ought to be making some serious power. I think I have the CI complex too. I started thinking of the 302, then the 351 and then the stroker. I haven't made a definite decision yet, but I may be interested in that stroker kit. Where is it from and what type parts come along with it? Crank, rods, pistons? I am going to order a Hurricane kit this week if I can decide on my engine/trans combo. It may be a month or so before I'm ready to start buying engine parts. If you still have it at that time I'd be interested. Thanks again for the info on the crate engine.

Mike

[66rdster]

Hi turnpike boy,
Thanks for the info. I'm not sure that either of you are wrong. After Chris made his post I started doing more research on these engines. I found there are a couple of models. One, the M-6007-XB3 is like you mentioned from what I have found. Front sump pan, balancer with intergral pulley and so on. It looks like the newest model (2005?), the M-6007-XB3M, is like Chris described. I'm certainly no expert on these engines or I wouldn't have been asking about them. But I have been doing a lot of reading trying to get the scoop on the newer Ford Performance parts and that seems be be what I have found.

BTW - I'm glad to hear that you like your 302/345. I'm still undecided which way to go. I want something dependable, fairly fast, and easy to maintain. Also, my wife could maybe drive it occasionally. On the other hand I like a lot of power. Most of the hot rods and muscle cars I've owned were pretty stout, but had the normal driveability issues you sometimes have with a high HP engine. Frequent tuning, heating problems in stop and go traffic and so on. I don't know if I want to get back into that kind of thing again or not. That is why I'm concidering the crate engine. Or at least something semi-mild. From your experience it sounds like it would be great. Is it fairly fast in such a light car?

Thanks for your response.

Mike

[351-EM]

Mike,

I purchased a 393W stroker kit from CHP a while back. It came with the stock length 351W Forged I-Beam Eagle Rods, Mahle Forged flat-top pistons (10-1 compression & .030 over) and a scat steel crank. I made it as far as having the assembly balanced and ready to install but changed course yet again.

If it sounds like something you may be interested in, let me know, I am in no hurry to get rid of it and I'd rather see it go to a good home ie: a Cobra rather than a Bronco or Mustang. Besides I'd practically give it away under the circumstances.

Chris

[66rdster]

Hi Chris,
It sounds like a nice kit. If you could, please PM me and let me know what you would like to get for it.

I have been checking on the transmission that I was thinking of using and I think it is the Super Duty. Its the T-5Z model with the 2.95 first gear. Its sold at Summit Racing as a World Class T-5 being rated for 330 ft.lb. of torque. Is this what your using? If so, its holding up behind your 427, so it should be OK with the 393.
Thanks again,

Mike

[rcassidy]

Not knocking Ford Crate engines I think they are a great deal, but for guys like me who understand their limits and know they should only work on an engine not try and build one.... there are a bunch of great manufactures of turn key engines out there. Of course you'll pay a little more than if you built it yourself, but it may be worth it to look and save yourself any headaches. Either way you go though a stock or stroked 302/351 will make for a fun car.

I got my Hurricane prepped for a 351w with a Tremec TKO 600.

Cheers
Ryan Cassidy

[66rdster]

Hi Ryan,
Thanks for your response. I think I have put to rest the idea of a Ford crate engine. I thought I'd save a little time and effort but after some hard thought I decided to build an engine myself. I have built many a SBC but have been away from the Fords for a while. I rather enjoy learning about all the Ford tricks for making power. After chatting with 351-EM I decided to go with a 393 stroker. I probably won't get too carried away with the HP but if I get bored with it down the road there will always be room to increase it.

I ordered my Hurricane kit today - Chassis #HM1024. I can hardly wait to get it. In the mean time I'll be following your build on your website. It's great that you are documenting your build and sharing it on the web. I really enjoyed looking at the pics and reading your build journal. Keep up the good work.

Mike

[Old Phart]

I know this is an old thread, but, I need to know what the Timing should be set at with a GT40 crate engine and World Class 5 speed trans. Book says 12 degrees initial. Friends say 14 degrees. I'm concerned about detonation and the exhaust pipes are very loud, so I can't hear any pinging.

Thank you.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by Old Phart

I know this is an old thread, but, I need to know what the Timing should be set at with a GT40 crate engine and World Class 5 speed trans. Book says 12 degrees initial. Friends say 14 degrees. I'm concerned about detonation and the exhaust pipes are very loud, so I can't hear any pinging.

Thank you.

I'd set the total timing at 32 degrees at 2500/3000 rpms and let the intial timing fall where it may......
With an MSD setup, you generally have 22 degrees advance built in,so if you go with 32 degrees total, you'll have your intial timing at 10......

David

[Old Phart]

Thank you, David.