superformance harness/shoulder belt install

nblumberg · #1 (**permalink**) 02-20-2006, 08:31 AM

As I understand it there are some predrilled holes and/or some instructions out there regarding the installation of shoulder belts (and maybe the sub) in a Superformance? I feel a slight bump in the rear fabric behind each seat, but other than that see nothing. Is there some sort of article floating around about it?

Thanks,
Nathan
#1048

Flyin_Freddie · #2 (**permalink**) 02-20-2006, 11:39 AM

...there are slots cut behind the seats on most SPF's...there were on mine #770. I would assume since your's is a later serial number, they would be on yours, as well.

But..you said "bumps"...do you mean indentations..? I would think any slots would be easy to feel beneath the stuck on carpeting. Why not probe them with a needle...hat pin, or something along those lines. If they're not there, the needle wouldn't go through the fiberglass...if they are, then it would. And no harm to your carpeting. Just an idea..

FYI...there is no slot, hole, whatever for the crotch strap. You'll have to drill one from the bottom of the car. I had to do the same for the passenger side. Remove the seats first...fairly easy to do.

Oh...and welcome to Club Cobra...

wtm442 · #3 (**permalink**) 02-20-2006, 11:49 AM

Nathan

We started a conversation on this just as the web site crashed. I took some pics to show you where the belts attach to the rear firewall.

and another

Hope this helps regarding your ANTIQUE and extremely old SPF. Number 1048 ... I heard they were coal powered

... welcome to Club Cobra where the server crashes once a year ... and we LOVE IT!

ttmb · #4 (**permalink**) 02-20-2006, 07:59 PM

Do the shoulder harnesses come with mounting hardware? What's a good source for the harness? Just got a new SPF, and I'm finishing it, waiting on transmission and a few other things. Thanks.

Tom

Flyin_Freddie · #5 (**permalink**) 02-21-2006, 07:27 AM

Yes, Tom..most of the manufacturers that I'm familiar with include mounting hardware with the harness set. However, that said, you usually have to specify whether you want floor mount, sholder mount, bar mount, etc. And sometime you have to improvise.

Sources include Simpson, which I have...as well as Deist, Sparco, and many others. Google each of those names and you'll find their website or at least someone who sells them. There's lots of options, too...knob releases, lever releases, duckbill releases...Y-mount, floor mount, etc, etc, etc. You'll have some decisions to make before ordering.

Also note that each set is usually custom made...this is because the web material will deteriorate over time with exposure to UV rays, weather, etc. Belts come with tags indicating dates of manufacture. Most govening bodies allow belts no more than five years old...if I recall correctly. If you're not planning on racing your SPF, this should be of little concern to you.

ttmb · #6 (**permalink**) 02-21-2006, 07:47 AM

Thanks Freddie. I'm going racing, but probably not for awhile, so I am looking at using the belts that came with the car for now and just adding shoulder harnesses. Eventually I want to install Simpson cam locks, 5 or 6 point. For now, just a set of shoulder harnesses will do for autocrossing. Finish line seems to have a nice set at a reasonable price. I kind of like the antique lever lock - the first plane I ever flew (T-33) had those belts, so they make me feel young again! (The AF went to camlocks in T-33 eventually.)

Flyin_Freddie · #7 (**permalink**) 02-21-2006, 08:00 AM

Yes sir..you and I must be about the same age. My Dad retired from the Air Force as a Lt Col...he's in Arlington now...miss his tired ol' ass every day!

If you're going with the duckbill latch, check on the velcro closure option. There's been one incident with which I'm familiar where we think a driver's hand inadvertantly swiped at the duckbill when his car ran of the track at VIR. In his haste to grab the wheel when he left the roadway, we think his hand accidentally opened the latch...and he was ejected from the car!!! Thank God he wasn't injured, but this was a potentially lethal situation!

So...my advice....check into the velcro closure strap. It simply wraps around the duckbill, keepin it closed until you open it.

Hope this helps....enjoy your SPF. I know I sure enjoy mine!

nblumberg · #8 (**permalink**) 02-21-2006, 08:15 AM

you guys are great - thanks for the info.

i'm leaning towards a latch type system, specifically simpson - are there any brands where you must use the anti-sub belt to latch the others (i doubt this is common). i figure for most of my street driving i'll leave this one disconnected.

Thanks,
Nathan

ttmb · #9 (**permalink**) 02-21-2006, 09:04 AM

Thanks Freddie,

That's interesting - as I recall the AF had similar problems with belts inadvertently coming undone (come on...you know what I mean). We went to the camlocks probably in the late '60's or early '70's I would guess. I flew F4's when they were new, and I think they came with camlocks already in mid-'60's. Older planes were retrofitted around then too. Maybe I'll just go straight to the camlocks - might put it off forever if I don't do it now.

Tom

Flyin_Freddie · #10 (**permalink**) 02-21-2006, 10:16 AM

Nathan...there's no manufacturer of which I'm aware that "require" use of an anti-sub belt in their harness. Most offer it as an option, but it's not mandatory. If you plan on going to the track, however, every sanctioning body I know of requires at least a 5-point harness, and some a 6-point. Makes sense to me to go ahead and install it now, while you're in there doing the work. FWIW, I've installed 5-points on both sides of #770...and I wear my anti-sub belt whenever I'm in the car. I figured I paid for it, might as well use it. Plus, I like the security it brings me...I like being snugged into the seat.

Tom...when I replaced my OEM belts (Deist) with Simpsons, I went to the cam lock buckles. After seeing the ejection at VIR ...it happened right in front of me(!)...I couldn't get those duckbills out of my car fast enough! At the time, we were unsure of what had happened, but I knew in my mind that I wouldn't be happy unless I had a more secure arrangement in my car. Plus, I'm a 30 year FedEx employee and I've been our cockpits enough to know we use cam locks for all air crew members. I figure there must be a reason...

Bottom line is you need to use what you feel comfortable with...it's your butt in there, and your skin on the line. One day they may find my lifeless body in the midst of the wreckage in the middle of a smoking hole in the ground, but they'll know where to find me, at least.

Hope this helps...there's lotsa choices out there!

Flyin_Freddie · #11 (**permalink**) 02-21-2006, 10:27 AM

BTW...Tom...I do indeed know what you're talking about...

... and we thought the same thing about the ejection at VIR. But, I wasn't standing there when the driver got in, and I didn't clear him from the hot grid onto the track. Whatever I say from that point on is conjecture only. We had no "Flying Safety Board" ...

The only thing I can be sure of is the driver came out of the car...I saw him laying under the left rear of the car as I drove by...of that much I can be sure.

Camlocks for me, thank you.

nblumberg · #12 (**permalink**) 02-21-2006, 10:33 AM

i spoke with simpson, and they told me the only difference between their cam and buckle belts were the ease of use, and neither had specific safety advantages.

i'm going with the v-style belts, even though it could be problematic in future open track events. i figure if I'm going to days where they let street cars out to play - a 4 point system shouldn't be a problem. i don't plan on doing anything competitive.

-n

frankym · #13 (**permalink**) 02-21-2006, 01:09 PM

I just did the install last weekend on spf 1005. Where you feel the recess in the carpet high behind the seats, use a very sharp utility razor and lightly perforate the recess and you will feel the razor cut right through the opening in the fiberglass. I used 3/8 inch bolts approximately 2.75 inches in length. both rear wheels come off in order to access the bolts. If you go with a metric size thread, you can probably go bigger than 3/8. Half inch will fight you quite a bit. Use hardened steel bolts and 3/8 should be fine.

ttmb · #14 (**permalink**) 02-21-2006, 02:04 PM

I see now - the frame is drilled vertically right behind the slots in the rear glass bulkhead. Looks like a piece of pie. Put the rear on jack stands, and the tire drops enough to access without removing wheels.

Tom

nblumberg · #15 (**permalink**) 03-02-2006, 10:59 PM

Update - I just got done installing the shoulder portion of some V style Simpson restraints (anti-sub will have to wait). Was pretty easy - the 3" 7/16" bolts worked great. The Simpson upper buckle just barely fit through the back wall, and needed some force to get the bracket far enough in to line up with the hole in the frame. I am not a big guy, so I got away with not removing the rear wheels - but if I had to do it over again, I'd just take em off. The belts seem very sturdy, and with the mounting point given by SPF, it seems like a pretty good setup.

Posted pix in gallery.

nblumberg · #16 (**permalink**) 03-03-2006, 08:38 AM

Where have folks bolted their anti-sub belts? There is one metal band that runs underneath the car, but it might be too narrow to drill a 7/17" hole through and still have it be reasonably strong. Is drilling anywhere the the floor secure enough?

Reading back through the thread I noticed there was some concern of the latch type buckles coming undone. Simpson actually uses a velcro strap on the end of the latch to keep it from coming up.