Lone star braking

rblong · #1 (**permalink**) 02-26-2006, 06:51 AM

I think we lost the thread that we had going about changing Tilton MCs to a 5/8" and 3/4". One of us was preparing to do it and I was interested if it was completed and did it make a big difference.

Thanks,
Bruce

undy · #2 (**permalink**) 02-26-2006, 08:35 AM

Hi Bruce,

That be me...

It worked out great! Before, every time I braked it required a concious effort to apply more force. It was actually a little scary at times if it necessitated a quick stop. After the 5/8" front w/ 3/4" back conversion braking is a normal function, as with my other vehicles. If you do this you'll need to readjust your balance bar as the front master cylinder will require a longer pedal stroke. Download Tilton's balance bar instructions from their web site. They're very detailed and thorough. It's been one of the best "mods" to date that I've done to the Cobra.

Dave

392cobra · #3 (**permalink**) 02-28-2006, 12:56 PM

Brake choices

I'm sure glad I printed out a lot of the thread that is now gone.

I'm still trying to make a final decision of which way to go on my brakes.

Options
1. Change out master cylinders to lower the pedal pressure. Change pads to a higher cof too.

2. Change out calipers.
New brackets & forged dynalite calipers. Same 11" granada rotors.
Change m/c & pads

3. Hot Rod USA Front brake kit. Zero offset. 12.19" rotors

With option 3 I can get the FDL or the FSL for $100 more.

The FSL and FDL both have the same pistons, 1.75",and both 4 piston.

Question: With the money not being a problem, what would be the benefits to going with one Vs the other calipers ???

4. Add the 12.19" rear brakes with the bigger fronts as well.

I sure could use some advise and options on this.

rdorman · #4 (**permalink**) 02-28-2006, 12:59 PM

Shoot! That is right. We lost the whole thread! Darn. I would change pads and master cylinders and see if you are happy. From there, larger rotors would be the next step... if it where me....

392cobra · #5 (**permalink**) 02-28-2006, 01:20 PM

What I don't want to do is make a career out of changing my brakes around.

It might not be rational but I keep getting a nagging feeling I will end up wishing I had gone further.I keep going back and forth on it.

Your advise is the sensible thing to do.I'm just not too sensible at times.

Do you know anything about the FDL & FSL question ?

CowtownCobra · #6 (**permalink**) 02-28-2006, 02:05 PM

I still say power brakes make the biggest difference.

2KWIK4U · #7 (**permalink**) 02-28-2006, 02:25 PM

Fred,
I purchased my Wilwood's from Hotrods USA, and don't remember or can't find the FDL and FSL option. Can you clarify what that is. I used WIL 140-7017DP for the front and WIL 140-6292DP on the rears (the rear setup is exclusive to HR USA). Perfect fit, easy install. The polished calipers look really good with the Coddingtons, too. You'll be pleased with the results if thats what you go with.

Brad W.

392cobra · #8 (**permalink**) 02-28-2006, 03:09 PM

Brad,
This is off their site.I'm looking at their kit instead of the Wilwood kit.They don't add to the offset like Wilwood.
That # for the rears is also what I am considering.

Part Number
Size Rotors
(Note 1)
Type of Calipers
(Note 2)
w/Spindle?
Notes

WIL 140-2129
10.75" Wilwood
4 Piston Dynalite Calipers
No
Note 3

WIL 140-7017
12.19" Wilwood
4 Piston Dynalite Calipers
No
Note 3

WIL 140-7018
12.90" Wilwood
6 Piston Superlite 6 Calipers
No
Note 3

HBK 2427401Z
11.75" Wilwood
4 Piston Dynalite Calipers
No
Note 4

HBK 2427401ZFSL
11.75" Wilwood
4 Piston Forged Superlite
No
Note 4

HBK 2427402Z
12.19" Wilwood
4 Piston Dynalite Calipers
No
Note 4

HBK 2427402ZFSL
12.19" Wilwood
4 Piston Forged Superlite
No
Note 4

HBK 2427403ZSL
12.90" Wilwood
6 Piston Superlite 6 Calipers
No
Note 4

HBK 2427425Z
11.75" Wilwood
4 Piston Dynalite Calipers
Yes
Note 4 & 5

HBK 2427426Z
12.19" Wilwood
4 Piston Dynalite Calipers
Yes
Note 4 & 5

HBK 2427427ZSL
12.90" Wilwood
6 Piston Superlite 6 Calipers
Yes
Note 4 & 5

Note 1: Add "D" to the part number for Drilled and Slotted Rotors
Note 2: Add "P" to the part number for Polished Wilwood Calipers
Note 3: Adds approximately 1" total to track width (1/2" per side). Recommend installing brake kit before purchasing wheels.
Note 4: Does not add to track width. Zero offset
Note 5: 2" drop generic spindles with Wilwood hubs, rotors, calipers.

rdorman · #9 (**permalink**) 03-02-2006, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 392cobra

What I don't want to do is make a career out of changing my brakes around.

It might not be rational but I keep getting a nagging feeling I will end up wishing I had gone further.I keep going back and forth on it.

Your advise is the sensible thing to do.I'm just not too sensible at times.

Do you know anything about the FDL & FSL question ?

Perhaps this will make your decision easier.... I plan on changing out my wilwood 10.75 front rotors to the 12.19". It make the system better balanced on my car. Plus the greater mass in the front helps with brake temps. Do I need to do it, nope, not for street use... but I am going to anyways!

Send me all the specs again once you decide because this will have impact on your master cylinder selection.

What is FDL and FSL?

As for calipers.... I would prefer a fixed caliper with different sized pistons to aid with pad taper. 4 pot is just fine for the front and two for the rear. Six is nice and all but overkill for the street, IMO. Any of the major brand names should be fine.

Clois Harlan · #10 (**permalink**) 03-02-2006, 08:48 AM

Rick,

What size MC are you running on your Cobra. I am sure you have told me but I have slept.

Clois

rdorman · #11 (**permalink**) 03-02-2006, 08:54 AM

If, I remember correctly, 5/8 front and 3/5 rear. Or is the other way around

I will check.....

392cobra · #12 (**permalink**) 03-02-2006, 09:10 AM

Yes,your decision on 12.19 does help.

FDL = Forged Dynalite
FSL = Forged Superlite

Both kits are 12.19" but one is $ 100 more and has the superlites.
I know the FSL is a bigger caliper and I think the pads are bigger too.
Both are 1.75",4 piston.

rdorman · #13 (**permalink**) 03-02-2006, 09:35 AM

No real opinion on one versus the other. Just make sure you have room inside your rims and don't forget about the space wieght takes up!

951mat · #14 (**permalink**) 03-02-2006, 09:48 AM

I'm in the process of swapping brake lines between master cylinders. Moving the fronts to the 5/8ths and the back to the 3/4ths. Did it the other day and seemed to help, but mangled the flare nuts and had a tiny leak, so redoing the lines. Also need to adjust the balance bar as the rears are still locking up 1st. Hope that fixes it.
mat

trularin · #15 (**permalink**) 03-02-2006, 11:10 AM

This was one of the threads I wanted to keep.

I think I am going to look into the 5/8 fronts and 3/4 rears for my Lone Star.

I had changed out the clutch and it made so much difference, my wife could drive the car.

I have a bit more things in the way to do power brakes. Thanks Dave.

If you have the Lone Star pedal set, what are you "adjusting" as the balance bar?

undy · #16 (**permalink**) 03-02-2006, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trularin

This was one of the threads I wanted to keep.

I think I am going to look into the 5/8 fronts and 3/4 rears for my Lone Star.

I had changed out the clutch and it made so much difference, my wife could drive the car.

I have a bit more things in the way to do power brakes. Thanks Dave.

If you have the Lone Star pedal set, what are you "adjusting" as the balance bar?

With the "new" 5/8" master cylinder up front that circuit will require a longer stroke then the 3/4" M/C rear circuit. With the brake pedal at rest (on mine after adjustment) the front circuit (5/8" M/C) side of the balance bar is about 1/2" further towards the driver than the rear circuit. Ideally, when the brakes are mashed and both circuits fully engaged the balance bar should be parallel with the fire wall. Follow Tilton's on-line instructions and you'll be fat-city..

BTW... another consideration for "larger" brakes.. If you go to another style calipers (multi-puck) then the lesser volume of the 5/8" master cylinder may or may not become an issue. Remember, the balance bar is only going to provide so much compensation between the f/r circuits. The more total piston internal fluid surface area that the additional pucks represent, the more a higher volume of fluid will required to provide pad engagement.

2KWIK4U · #17 (**permalink**) 03-02-2006, 01:24 PM

Just a reminder guys, the length of the treaded master cylinder rod, in relation to the balance bar, has absolutly nothing to do with the brake bias. It's the percentage left or right from center, of the sperical bearing inside the pedal, that controls brake bias. I read so many treads where people are trying to adjust their bias by using the m/c rods and that is not the correct procedure.

Brad W.

mbishop · #18 (**permalink**) 03-02-2006, 02:21 PM

Trularin,
I wish I had printed the old thread before the crash. What size MC were you running before? What size MC on your clutch and are you using the Wilwood slave? I have a 5/8, 7/8 and 1" now. I was hoping to button everything up and get this thing on the road but I don't want to go back through it again.

I was going to go 5/8 on the front, 7/8 on the rear and 1" on the clutch per Dennis at Lone Star. Actually he said hook them up however you want and change them if you don't like how it feels. A lot of research went into that statement it appears. I've seen a lot of different sizes on basically the same setup (Granada front, Explorer rear (Currie), and Wilwood slave). I just trying to figure out if there is any rhyme or reason here.

Now I'm thinking 5/8 front, 1" rear, and 7/8 on the Wilwood. Discovered a lot of info on the 1" causing leaks or premature failure with the MC being too big. I guess I need to buy a new 3/4 for the rear. Sure getting tired of purchasing things I already have but I guess that just part of the process.

Thanks for you input.
Mark

392cobra · #19 (**permalink**) 03-02-2006, 02:35 PM

Mark,
I saved several of the posts.Here is a copy of one of them.
You sure don't what that 1" on the rear.

This is from Rick.

Based on that information, with a pad CF of .3 (OEM replacement type pads), a 5/8" front and a .7 rear will give you 72 pound of force on the brake pedal for a 1G stop. A .4 pad (good high torque performance pad) drops the pedal effort all the way down to 54 pounds! That is nothing.

With a .4 pad, again, readily attainable, here is the pedal effort needed to pull a 1G stop (the most you can hope for on street tires, you will probably see less).
Fr Rear effort
5/8 .7 54
.7 .750 65
.75 .8125(13/16) 76

Try pressing on a digital bath scale and see what feels right to you. Keep in mind that with the .3 pads and a .7 and .75 master cylinder that your pedal effort if going to be about 87 pounds and that is pretty high. So, if you are sticking with stock type pads I would go with the 5/8 and .7 combination and if I was looking at higher torque pad, I would go .7 and .750. But that is just me!

Be aware that most likely your fronts are going to heat up much faster than your rears since you probably don't have much difference in the mass of the rotor. A pad that can take high temps would be a very good idea on the front.

Be sure and take the time to set the balance bar correctly once the pads have been bedded.
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