Funny clutch noise on new setup

Rwillia4 · #1 (**permalink**) 04-06-2007, 10:46 PM

So I was trying to adjust the clutch on a new installation. It makes some weird grinding noise coming from the clutch pressure plate area when I push the pedal far enough to start disengaging the clutch. The gears engage fine (car is still on jack stands). Any ideas?

Ron61 · #2 (**permalink**) 04-07-2007, 06:36 AM

Are you sure that your throw out bearing and everything is lined up? Even possible to have gotten a bad throw out bearing, but I would look at everything before I do to much and see if I could see any marking where anything is binding.

Ron

Cashburn · #3 (**permalink**) 04-07-2007, 07:32 AM

Transmission?
Clutch?
Throwout Bearing?
Bellhousing?
Clutch Fork?
Slave Cylinder?

What are you using??? That will help to know...

scotty · #4 (**permalink**) 04-07-2007, 07:48 AM

had the same noise check to see if the flywheel bolts are tight... also make sure they are the longer ones dont use automatic tranmission bolts.~~SCOTT~~

Clois Harlan · #5 (**permalink**) 04-07-2007, 10:00 AM

While you have time and are not on some freeway pull everything out and check to see if your flywheel bolts are not hitting something, or your clutch is installed backwards, or your starter in not dis-engaging, or as was mentioned a bad throw out bearing. This is no time for vanity we have all made some mistakes during our builds.

Clois

Rwillia4 · #6 (**permalink**) 04-07-2007, 11:09 AM

transmission- T-56 10 spline
clutch/pressureplate/flywheel- ram
ford needle bearing
ford t/o bearing
bellhousing is standard with the T-56
slave cylinder- hydraulic

It sounds like a very unhappy T/O bearing. I have no more information on the part number other then Ford. I am not sure of the shaft diameter but am afraid I may have put a ford part (1.435" ID) on a gm shaft (1.375"ID). I don't recall if there was slop when I put it in. Being the first time I put one together I didn't know to look for it. I ASSUMED I was sent the correct part since I purchased the tranny and T/O bearing from the same guy. I hope it is not cus I dont want to pull the whole motor to replace it. Can you pull just the tranny on a BDR, (a long one like a T-56)? today was suppose to be its virgin run...I guess I can start it in gear and drive around ! ha

Is there some technique to "lining" things up? I didn't do anything special. The noise doesn't seem to be bare metal on metal grinding, it sounds like I can hear every finger of the pressure plate going by.

cosbytnkid · #7 (**permalink**) 04-07-2007, 01:32 PM

4Willia4 from what you are saying here it sounds as though the clutch assy. isn't aligned properly to the flywheel. Remember we are talking about a rotating assembly like a tire would be. Don't you balance a tire to take out vibration because one side is heavier than the other side? Same principle applies here also. If the clutch and pressure plate isn't aligned with flywheel then one side or the other becomes heavier and sets up a vibration that will be heard through the TO bearing. Since you have it apart get yourself a clutch alignment tool or another input shaft same as your tranny. Hopefully this will cure your noise. Also IMO I"d recheck that TO bearing ID size as compared to OD of input shaft. Just to be on the safe side. Just my .02$ here.

aldersonjames20 · #8 (**permalink**) 04-07-2007, 03:08 PM

It may be a problem and it may not... some high performance stuff, specially racing clutch assembly's (ies??), make a racket when engaged...sounds like something is grinding and you can swear you hear parts flying around in there. Mine doesn't make that much noise, but you sure can here it when the pedal is in. I took it in to a high performance place around me and they thought it was pretty quiet for "one a them thar on and off clutches".. lol

James

Rwillia4 · #9 (**permalink**) 04-07-2007, 11:24 PM

I called about the parts and they have assured me they are the correct parts and diameters.
As far as alignment, I did use an alignment pin and the tranny bolted up to the block without any issues, so the clutch plate is centered on the tranny shaft. The pressure plate self-aligns when it is bolted to flywheel so that is all squared away. I think it is kinda hard to screw up any of those steps...am I missing something. The t/o bearing can be screwed up but I think I installed it correctly. As far as for balance RAM is a pretty reputable and I believe they balance them.

No parts are flying around (yet

) and the pedal has a smooth action with the engine off.

I am not sure if I am adjusting the pedal correctly. Could I be over-pushing the pressure plate inot the clutch plate and that is the grinding I'm hearing. Like I said before the car is on stands so as soon as I start to move teh shifter toward a gear the wheels start to turn (which is why I kept pulling the arm in). If I am being stupid let me know cus I would hate to pull the engine to realize everything was correct except for the guy behind the wrench.

I wonder if James it on to something, could be performace product making performance noise. I also have a short shifter but the noise sounds like it is coming from the clutch area.

thanks for the help, keep it coming..I want the engine to stay in the car!!

Ron61 · #10 (**permalink**) 04-08-2007, 05:11 AM

If you have the clutch all the way in and the clutch is fully released, you should not have the wheels turning a soon as you start to put it into gear. Do you feel any roughness in the gear shift? I ran a heavy duty racing clutch for 11 years and I never had any of the noises they describe above. It was not as smooth and easy as the one on my daily driver, but no grinding, roughness, or other weird things. Also the clutch on my 69 Cobra is a very heavy duty racing one and it is not noisy, or at least I can't hear it. I did had a throw out bearing get bad in it once, but that not only caused noise but I could feel it in the clutch pedal.

Ron

Roscoe · #11 (**permalink**) 04-08-2007, 08:10 AM

Just because you aligned it with the pins does not mean it is aligned. You have to use a dial indicator to true the shaft. This could be your problem. By the way, do you have a pilot bearing installed?

From Lakewood:

Unfortunately checking the alignment is a major pain in the neck... literally if you're working with the engine in the car. The procedure for checking the alignment is to mount a dial-indicator on the flywheel so that the plunger contacts the lip of the bellhousing bore. With the bellhousing securely mounted to the block, rotate the crank 360 degrees and observe the gauge. The total travel of the needle, divided by two, is the amount of misalignment between the crank centerline and the bellhousing bore. Lakewood specifies no more than 0.005" misalignment. Any more than this and you should correct it using offset alignment dowels in the block or welding offset washers over the dowel holes in the bellhousing.

Roscoe

Rwillia4 · #12 (**permalink**) 04-08-2007, 05:03 PM

with further inspection thru the pivot arm hole I noticed red paint on the front side of the arm, the same color paint that is on the pressure plate. So what is happening is when the pivot arm is pulled it is impacting the pressure plate before the clutch is disengaged. WTF!!! Does this mean shimming between the fork/ t/o bearing. End state is dropping the trans at a minimum and since I don't think I can pull the T-56 out because of its length it really means pulling the whole engine to fix the problem.

Did I miss some step that could have checked for this prior?

Rwillia4 · #13 (**permalink**) 04-08-2007, 09:07 PM

Can anyone talk smart on pivot ball adjustment?

Roscoe · #14 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007, 06:35 AM

Can't help ya there son.....I've got the hydraulic throw out bearing.

Roscoe

Ron61 · #15 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007, 06:49 AM

If you have the correct pivot arm and the throw out bearing is mounted correctly, then you will most likely have to pull everything out to really see just what is going on. I don't care much for the idea of shims. The throw out bearing should have the clutch disengaged before the pivot arm can get to the pressure plate. Sorry, but it just sounds to me as if you have something in there that is not set up correctly or an incorrect part. Regardless, now is the time to find out before you ruin something.

Ron

Roscoe · #16 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007, 06:54 AM

Important lesson learned here:

Do it right the first time.....

Unfortunately, I believe you must pull the motor and trans. You should start by dialing in the bellousing and working your way back from there.

Here's some instruction: http://www.priveye.com/images/lakewood.htm

Roscoe

Rwillia4 · #17 (**permalink**) 04-10-2007, 12:06 AM

thanks for the advice. It is not going to happen for a few weeks but it looks like it is all coming out.

Ron61 · #18 (**permalink**) 04-10-2007, 05:21 AM

Sorry for all the extra work, but now is the time to get it correct. Much better to do before you really mess something expensive up and have to have a lot of work done.

Ron

rcassidy · #19 (**permalink**) 04-10-2007, 07:29 AM

Well, I read through the entire post and was assuming your fork was hitting the back of the pressure plate. You confirmed this so we know what the issue is. Mine did the same thing trying to get everything to work properly

A few things you should pick up before you tear appart your tranny, IF you want to stay with the passagers side pivot setup.

McCloud Adjustable Throwout Bearing,
Lakewood Adjustable Pivot Ball.

By using these two items you should be able to get enough leverage to disengage the clutch fully since you are using a diaphram clutch which requires a little less TO bearing travel. Reading the thread it sounds like you are using a passangers side pivot. Given the time you are going to put into this, I would like to reccomend you scrap this setup and go to a Driver side pivot. You may be able to get the passangers side to work, others have, but I'm betting it will be really close.

With the passangers side pivot, it's been my experience you have barely enough travel to fully disengage the clutch disk. The reason is you have approx a 60% loss in movement from where the clutch slave moves and the actualy TO. So if the clutch slave moves 1", the TO only moves 0.4". If you go to a drivers side pivot you get basically a 1:1 ratio and will have much more adjustment options available to make it all work, less pedal travel, etc

I ended up using these parts. Now I have a McCleod Bellhousing which is a little longer than the T-56 I believe. If that is correct you won't need the spacer that's included with the bracket below.

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/ite...asp?T1=AB74+01
http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/ite...p?T1=87515A+01
http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/ite...sp?T1=N1439+01

I've been fussing with my passangers side pivot and spent over $1000 to get a shop (who just plain old screwed me) to get it to work. In the end I ended up spending $150 changing to a driver side pivot and I am so happy I did it. I should have done this a long time ago, saved myself the headaches and the $$. Would have solved all my issues.

Feel free to e-mail me and we can talk through the whole thing. :-)

Cheers,
Ryan Cassidy

Rwillia4 · #20 (**permalink**) 04-11-2007, 12:03 AM

Ryan,

Thanks for the write up. and the parts list. This is what I could have used a few weeks ago

I think I will look athe driver side pvot once I get it all out and sorted. I'm not sure if I can easily take off the bellhouseing as the T-56 is the front cover of the tranny. I don't remember if there are any mounting hole for a driver side pivot.

The frustration will end once I get it all out and opened up. then I will take some time and figure out how to get it back in and working...before summer