Can you tell me what 9" I have and if it's still any good??

commercialcobb · #1 (**permalink**) 05-18-2009, 10:57 PM

These are some photo's of the rear end I siezed up running it without diff fluid. With further inspection, it seems as if the pinion bearing is what siezed. The gears appear OK to me. I posted the first thread in the wrong forum so I am bringing my question here. I need to know what kit I need (best bang for the buck) and what gears you recommend. It's is a 450+hp 429 with Tremec TKO-500 and had 3.50 gears in it. Now that the rearend most likely is damaged, should I stay with the 3.50 gears and also I don't think this is a "posi". I would love for you guys to give me some feedback on setup's you may have and which ones you liked/didn't like. Also, is a Posi Trac that important? I know thats a dumb question but this is not the ideal time for me to spend that kinda money..

Here's what I do know:
Ford 9" C7AW-E
31 Spline
1310 Yoke 3-1/4" (Measured accros the U-joint recesses)

I think it's:
Standard Pinion Support measured 3-1/2"
Trac Lock

Jac Mac · #2 (**permalink**) 05-18-2009, 11:54 PM

Looks like a posi ( clutch pack ) to me, look in from bolt side of ring gear at axle splines, should be two sets on that side. Possibly very little if any damage to the posi unit while without oil unless you were working it hard in corners etc, but a total stripdown will be needed to check it out. Bottom line, New R&P plus all five brgs & seal, along with check of axle brgs just to be sure.

commercialcobb · #3 (**permalink**) 05-19-2009, 12:00 AM

Is this what you are refering too?

commercialcobb · #4 (**permalink**) 05-19-2009, 12:02 AM

and know I didn't run it hard at all.... Never broke 45mph or 2500 rpm.. Engine and tranny are still breaking in.. I am almost certain the only thing that is siezed is the pinion bearing.. Everyting else has movement but that.

Jac Mac · #5 (**permalink**) 05-19-2009, 01:00 AM

Arrow on pic shows where 'gap' between inner/outer splines of clutch hub/axle gear should be.( Looks like it is- should be easy for you to see.)

To me pinion support roller looks like it might have been hot in your photo ( thats the one at axle end of pinion.)

Like others on other threads have told you 9" are a little daunting if you have never set one up before and as you are likely to be fitting a 'New R&P' you will have to go thru a pinion shim thickness selection exercise. Once that is done the rest of the setup is fairly basic.--
I always fit a solid pinion spacer rather than the factory crush sleeve which adds to setup time, but pays dividends long term especially if your making a few HP.
You really need to strip the whole head assy first to decide whether to try & save it, or purchase a new unit.
BEFORE removing caps from carrier, punch/mark them in relation to housing so you get them back on correct side, do same for pinion bearing housing to make life easier.

Jerry Clayton · #6 (**permalink**) 05-19-2009, 05:57 AM

Put new pinion bearings in it and run it---the pinion turns 3.5 times the Rs of the axle gears so they are the first to go---if the gears look ok and turn smooth with the new bearins you will be fine-

427sharpe · #7 (**permalink**) 05-19-2009, 10:09 AM

Thats the standard C7AW case...used all the way thru the production from '67 to the 80's. ID by the single vertical reinforcing rib the the top of the case. The differential IS a posi..an EquaTork. You can tell by the recessed bolts holding the ring gear on. A TracLoc would look the same, except the face of the carrier would be machined, not 'as cast' like the one in the photo. If only the pinion seized, more than likely I would say somebody got a bit too happy with the impact tightening down the crush sleeve and collapsed the bearing. IF it seized, the pinion would probably be heat stressed..get rid of it and check the case for signs of severe heating (bluing) around the bearing pockets!
Setting up a new R&P is not hard...just time consuming. Any of the old shop manuals will explain it ('65-6 Mustang manuals abound, and are cheap). If you're running a TKO with the .63 OD, I would recommend a gear set around 3.73-3.89 which would give you a final drive of 2.35/2.45 which is great for cruising. Figuring a 295/50/15, or similar 26.6" tire, you get +/- 2166RPM at 70 MPH (3.89 gearset).

commercialcobb · #8 (**permalink**) 05-19-2009, 07:31 PM

Well RATS!!! I have just found out that I have a 28-spline rear-end.. I don't have the funds to change all of this over to 31 right now but the car is off the road and I want it running again.. Does anyone know where to get a Equa-Loc paper and steels repair kit for this dinosaur I have? Also I am thinking of buying the 28-spline Visteon set, Nascar used one race ring and pinion off of Ebay. Is this a mistake? Cant beat $99 and also I can say my gears were run in Nascar. LOL.. But seriously, what do I do now to get around this bump in the road??

Jerry Clayton · #9 (**permalink**) 05-19-2009, 07:57 PM

read my earlier post---put the three pinion bearings in with a new crush sleeve--your gears aren't hurt--new bearings and seal---use the same pinion housing shims you have, just tighten the pinion nut until you get slight resistance in spinning the pinion--you probably won't even have to reset the backlash unless you took it further apart than your pics show---don't worry about 28/31 splines

commercialcobb · #10 (**permalink**) 05-19-2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

read my earlier post---put the three pinion bearings in with a new crush sleeve--your gears aren't hurt--new bearings and seal---use the same pinion housing shims you have, just tighten the pinion nut until you get slight resistance in spinning the pinion--you probably won't even have to reset the backlash unless you took it further apart than your pics show---don't worry about 28/31 splines

Do I need to wire brush or polish off the edges if they are sharp or maybe damaged slightly on the R&P gear? So I need to just get a gear installation kit with bearings, crush sleeve, and what ever else comes with it?? Should I also go ahead and replace the axle shaft bearings? And when we did give a little go to it, only one tire spun. Would that mean the Equa-loc paper and steel need replacing or is that how that limited slip works? I don't want to get it all repaired and floor it only to smoke one tire all the way accross town but also I cannot aford a detroit locker so I guess oh well eh? If I could find the papers and steels I would definitely replace them just for the sake of replacing them.. Anyone know where to find these clutch papers and steels?

commercialcobb · #11 (**permalink**) 05-19-2009, 11:58 PM

OK, this is driving me crazy.. What limited slip do I have? I have the 5/8" bolts with thin metal washers, has recessed bolts, 4 spider gear 4 pin (supposed to be Trac-lock).. It is not a machined surface (equal-lock).

This is quoted from an internet source that is repeated on many different pages.. Confussing the hell out of me. I cannot buy the parts if I don't know what it is that I have.

http://www.kevinstang.com/Ninecase.htm

How to identify a “Posi”

The two basic types of “posi” units (posi is the G.M. name for its positive traction system which has been become a part of the nomenclature) are the early Equa lock and the subsequent Traction lock units ( I will refer to them here as “spools” to simplify things). I am not exactly sure when the Equa-locs first appeared, early units are scarce – I haven’t seen many prior to 1964/65 and these are quite rare.From what I have seen the Equa locs were used up until 1969, which is when I believe the Traction Loc units first appeared. There are visual and internal differences between the two spools and most parts do not interchange.

Internally the number of clutch disc and plates differs between the equa loc and trac loc spools, the equa loc having only 3 fiber plates and 4 steel with one large belveder spring applying force.The trac loc unit utilizes 4 fiber plates and 5 steel plates, with 4 smaller springs applying force.Both equa lock and trac loc units were available in 2 pin and 4 pin varieties, in either 28 spline or 31 spline versions.The four pin 31 spline unit would be more commonly found as a trac loc piece. The four pin being the heavier duty unit utilizing 4 spider gears vs just two in the two pin variety (as noted in figure above a four pin variety will have actually just 3 pins and a two pin will in reality just have 1 pin- the number of spider gears is actually what is being referred to).Shown below are the internals of a four pin equa loc, note the five “fingers” on the steel clutch plates-the tiny circular tabs on outer edge- (trac loc units will have only 4).

commercialcobb · #12 (**permalink**) 05-20-2009, 12:02 AM

The #'s one the posi ar "AW-4205-B".. Does that mean anything to anyone?? I want to complete most of this if not all on my own so I can learn how to do it myself, but I am about to just turn it over to a pro. I am not quick to give up but know when I have to. I at least want to order the parts myself and let someone put them in. I have found "Equal-Lock" papers and steels for sale and would love to buy them and repair my unit while its out but I am not sure that is what I have..

392cobra · #13 (**permalink**) 05-20-2009, 04:54 AM

Just my opinion.

If you are not going to upgrage to a bigger u-joint than that 1310,I wouldn't be concerned with a 31 spline axles.

Jerry Clayton · #14 (**permalink**) 05-20-2009, 06:15 AM

From reading your posts, I gathered that you were on a budjet for this repair----the nine inch pumpkins are easy to remove from the car so you can do it over if the minimun repair doesn't work out-----the pinion bearings went bad---replace them and the pinion seal---with the pinion unit removed(5 bolts) spin the ring gear and carrier to see if the side bearing are smooth---if not replace them---examine/spin the axle bearings--same deal---replace if NECESSARY. get it back together and drive----you can then watch e bay for some of the nascar stuff since you are right there in NC. I get 31 spline carriers and detroit lockers from them all the time----plan ahead for conversion but fix your present problem so you can drive it

tcrist · #15 (**permalink**) 05-20-2009, 10:55 AM

I budget is an issue, do you really want to take a chance and mess it up and have to pay for it twice? Take it to a rearend shop and have them take a look at it. If you need to replace the gears, they will tell you.

Now, if you just want the experiance of doing this yourself, then buy all means, do it.

Got the Bug · #16 (**permalink**) 05-20-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcrist

I budget is an issue, do you really want to take a chance and mess it up and have to pay for it twice? Take it to a rearend shop and have them take a look at it. If you need to replace the gears, they will tell you.

Now, if you just want the experiance of doing this yourself, then buy all means, do it.

commercialcobb - You mentioned in the other thread that the car had been in the shop for 4 years and someone had drained the rear end fluid. Shouldn't the shop pick up all or part of the tab for the repair? Agree with tcrist, get a pro to do it.

commercialcobb · #17 (**permalink**) 05-20-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

commercialcobb - You mentioned in the other thread that the car had been in the shop for 4 years and someone had drained the rear end fluid. Shouldn't the shop pick up all or part of the tab for the repair? Agree with tcrist, get a pro to do it.

Whoa man... lol.. Were knocking heads so badly with parts that have wandered off of the years that we have had to re-buy 40% of what we have already bought.. They still think we owe them money, yet I took over the restoration in their shop with their tools last September.. When I got there it was a fiberglass tub and half built engine. I have done everything minus paint and for good reason I was in the restoration buisness in my younger years and became a great fabricator and welder (I THINK MY WELDS LOOK DAMN FINE!! Nobody else thinks so.. LOL).. But we, and by we, I mean and have to fess up, the Cobra belongs to my stepfather. I had a falling out with my ex-fiancee in another city and got the hell out of dodge. I see her all the time in court but thats another story for another day. I decided when I came home to my moms and the aviation industry was in it's slump to take over ther restoration of the car for him. We are just trying to wash are hands in this shop and they are doing the same to us.. So it's kinda like were on our own but they will provide me the tools and knowledge any time as long as our Cobra leaves there bay and never comes back. lol.. Were in good spirits and have fun at the shop, but how many mechanics do you know would give free rein on the tools and a shop key to someone they really don't know. They just want it gone and so do we.. lol.

commercialcobb · #18 (**permalink**) 05-20-2009, 10:44 PM

Oh so I found out that we have a Trac-Loc limited slip 28 Spline 3.50 rearend.. I pull the third member to pieces today and finally found out what I was looking for.. Were gonna stick with the 28 for now by just replacing the bearings, R&P and the Trac-Lock clutch plates..

FUNFER2 · #19 (**permalink**) 05-21-2009, 05:11 AM

I don't know, what does your wife say ?

(sorry, you walked into this one) lol

Jac Mac · #20 (**permalink**) 05-21-2009, 01:48 PM

I sorta dropped off this thread because I couldnt get a good look @ the tooth condition of your old R&P to give a definite yay or nay on those two parts. Lets put it this way, if the tooth condition is OK and the 'spigot' of the pinion which runs in the roller brg has not been overheated or worn while without lube and the Ring Gear & Carrier spin Freely & Quietly after you have removed the pinion assy, then you may get away with just pinion brgs,crush sleeve & seals. IF you can do that then you should be able to reuse the existing shim as MOST times doing a rebuild in this manner does not require a change in pinion depth setting. Good Luck.