ESC mandatory

[*Cobber*]

No, a cobra falls outside of the street rod years.

WA
http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/licensing/1414.asp

In simple terms you apply to the DPI or now the transport department to build an ICV and nominate what you want to build and engine etc. The DPI / Transport will then grant you permission to build and give you a 2 year time frame to build. If you go outside that time frame they may impose new regs on your build. IM 240 test was one that was recently added, now it has just been suspended due to "technical issues" whole other thread.

Compared to the rest of the country we have it fairly easy here in the west but there are still plenty of hoops to jump through.

If the kit car industry wants to survive in Australia and be part of nation building local industry it must do the pushing.

How many kit manufacturers are there in Australia (not just cobra's)? These are the targets to stir up not the poor mug who buys a kit in the hope of one day being able to negotiate their way through the minefield of regs.

Happy to be part of a new wave movement and wave flags and sign a petition.

I also feel like it has been done to death.

[Mando]

If the manufacturers don't give a $hit why would anyone else?

Regards.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Mando

If the manufacturers don't give a $hit why would anyone else?

Regards.

I'll tell you why Mando. Because blokes like Liam are stuck with this ridiculous system. He has asked for help and that's what I'm trying to do for him, even if he is a lone voice. If this ESC ADR becomes a reality, he definately won't be the only crying out for help.

We have a State election coming along in the not too distant future and from present indicators, we will probably have a change in Government.

The time is perfect for some serious lobbying. As the 'Big Man' would say, "Are you with me?"

Baz

[Merv and Sharon]

Perhaps it is time that our national president wrote, on our behalf, to all the kit makers and suppliers and asked if they wanted to join in submission to the National Transport Ministers' forum/meeting each year with their National Transport Minister, citing the value of the industry, the benefits of a single reasonable set of rules and the parallels with the rodders? Do the kit manufacturers have a body of any kind?

Merv

[Rebel1]

Originally Posted by Merv and Sharon

Perhaps it is time that our national president wrote, on our behalf, to all the kit makers and suppliers and asked if they wanted to join in submission to the National Transport Ministers' forum/meeting each year with their National Transport Minister, citing the value of the industry, the benefits of a single reasonable set of rules and the parallels with the rodders? Do the kit manufacturers have a body of any kind?

Merv

Merv, That's exactly what John Staszynski did. I still have the email on file.

In fact, herewith an excerpt from that email:

Hullo and welcome to a specific interest group focused on allowing replica cars to be registered for road use under the same system and rules that are applied to street rods.

Your name has been selected as someone that may be interested in becoming involved in a national lobby group that will support the above goal.

The aim is to lobby all the state transport departments systematically and simultaneously so that state ministers and the state regulators will be receiving the same message at the same time.

Some of you will be aware that in my role of Cobra Car Club President South Australia I have been able to achieve some gains in this area on a local basis. However if we are to avoid the problem of a state arguing that they cannot proceed alone in this area we must take a national approach. This will also demonstrate to the authorities that this is not a "flash in the pan" issue that will soon go away if it is put in the too hard basket.

If you are not interested in being involved just reply to me and I will remove your name from the list.

I have set out a framework on how this group can operate using the recourses of the Cobra Car Club branches in all states except NT and Tasmania where none exist. The clubs have a mandate to lobby on behalf of their members. These members are also interested in replica cars other than just cobras, i.e. GT 40, Daytona replicas etc.

Name. Replica Car Lobby Group.

Aim. To establish a coordinated common purpose lobby group in every state and territory of Aust.

Purpose. To create a "Replica" category within the state registration systems and move our replica cobras etc into that category instead of the Individually constructed Vehicle (ICV) category they currently hold.

Why? The ICV,s we build are subject to different requirements in different states. However they all class them as ICV, a one off construction and one individuals efforts. This means that different requirements can be imposed on similar vehicles within the same state if desired. For example, in SA I have negotiated an exemption from meeting emission requirements for an ICV fitted with a carburettor 427 yet was rejected on an exemption for a fuel injected 5 litre because it was fitted with eight throttle bodies. There are such options as club rego in some states but not a national basis.
Something that is available on a national basis is the Street Rod category. These cars are NOT ICV s even if they are all different and individually constructed by the owner/builder and engineered by a contracted engineer. No the state ministers in their wisdom have decreed that a special Street Rod set of rules be created to manage the building and registration of these cars.

And it went on further.......


Baz, You well want to contact John and continue what he started. I agree it needs constant attention and some-one to drive the concept.

[Merv and Sharon]

Seems like he was on the right course then Les. Did our national body support him? Did any manufacturers also join in?

Merv

[Rebel1]

Originally Posted by Merv and Sharon

Seems like he was on the right course then Les. Did our national body support him? Did any manufacturers also join in?

Merv

Merv, I have no idea if any manufacturers supported him. John was the National Cobra President when he started this attempt.

I can comment on the meeting in which I was involved which did include manufacturers and, as mentioned previously, two major local manufacturers were complacent to say the least.

From my point of view that was the end for me. I had arranged meetings on three occasions with QT department heads. Had gleaned a degree of support from QT. Had been given guidance by QT department heads which appeared to open a door for us to continue discussions.

Frankly, I was somewhat disappointed with the lack of follow on by those given the task.

[Merv and Sharon]

Sounds like you did all the ground work there and John was the national president ... You both did your best then. I guess when the kit manufacturers are busy filling orders they see no need to look further. Seems shortsighted as this country has a capacity to create rules for everything - unlike any country I have ever lived in (except Sweden).

Merv

[Rebel1]

Originally Posted by Merv and Sharon

I guess when the kit manufacturers are busy filling orders they see no need to look further. Seems shortsighted as this country has a capacity to create rules for everything - unlike any country I have ever lived in (except Sweden).

Merv

I guess you're right Merv re the Manufacturers. I was not the Queensland co-ordinator of this initiative but was requested to start the ball rolling as I had the "contacts" at QT and to pass details to the actual co-ordinator.

I felt the initial discussions were quite positive.

What I can say is this ..... I totally agree with Johns view ie. Have the States create a new Classification (John suggested a REPLICA category) because the Classification of ICV if a definition which the States continue to require and they don't like creating exemptions to an already defined standard.

The Hot Rod Federation was successful in convincing the States to create the Hot Rod classification to cater for their vehicles.

Bureaucrats don't like setting standards and then hand out exemptions to those Standards. It's a little like Legislation.

EDIT: For your interest Merv, The object of the exercise was to also set an approved standard of engine emissions and to "lock" those into the new classification. Carby engines were out. The 5Ltr Windsor, either standard injection or mass-flow, 351 Windsors with mass-flow, as well as later model of Ford and GM engines were contemplated. The mass-flow folks provided us with sufficient proof their system would meet requirements.

[Merv and Sharon]

Interesting. The new classification idea is a good one, where we/they could specify a 'type' within a range the features of the replica/s. Could mean of course that we would have to use an all Ford designation in Cobras - small block that is, if a single 'type' was established for traditional Cobras? (Those modern GM motors are the ones to blame for this slide to modernity and all its regulations????)

Seriously though, this seems the right path as you have described it above, and should be the take off point for any future moves. Perhaps at the coming Nationals the State Presidents could get together and discuss some strategies and how the issue could be progressed so that future builders have greater confidence that their vehicles are registerable and feasible from a construction perspective?

Merv

[boxhead]

Hey there Baz,
The rules for the NT are as follows.
First step is to fill out paperwork to apply to build the car, this is called :Approval in Principal"
Once a month the board sits and one of there "jobs" is they go through these forms and either approve or advise on requirements for your build.
Once you have approval for the build (Ie this form is returned to you advising all is ok) then you have 3 years from this date to complete your build.
If you do not get this completed in this time frame, you can apply for an extension, extensions are approved for a further 2 years.
From my understanding this can go for as long as you need (there is a GT40 being built in town that has been ongoing since late 80's and is approved to run quad webbers)
The application is free of charge and so are the extensions.
Of note is that once you make this application, you can then straight away apply for a Vin number (so there is no waiting for this once the car has been engineered)

Regarding street rod rego, I honestly feel this is the way that the Cobra community should be going, I think the cut off year is 1948?
I did look into the idea of street rod rego of my Cobra as a hot rodded AC Bristol, but the Bristol was not old enough.

[sambo]

Edit: Boxhead answered my question, re 1948 cut-off for street rods. I wonder where they got that year from and whether they can be paid to change it?

[Rebel1]

Originally Posted by sambo

Edit: Boxhead answered my question, re 1948 cut-off for street rods. I wonder where they got that year from and whether they can be paid to change it?

Actually Sambo, a little more complex than that:

Definitions
Street Rod: The definition of a Street Rod used in this document is the same as that which appears in the Australian Vehicle Standards Rules, i.e.: “A Street Rod shall mean a vehicle that has a body and frame that were built before 1949, that has been modified for safe road use, or a replica of a vehicle the body and frame of which were built before 1949.”

Notice the subtle replica reference.

[sambo]

Les, and what if in my attempts to create a replica of a Model T Ford, I got the styling a bit wrong and it came out looking more like a 1965 Cobra?

It would be very hard to generically define "replica" without some degree of subjective interpretation.

[Rebel1]

Originally Posted by sambo

Les, and what if in my attempts to create a replica of a Model T Ford, I got the styling a bit wrong and it came out looking more like a 1965 Cobra?

It would be very hard to generically define "replica" without some degree of subjective interpretation.

I think that degree of subjective interpretation would/could only happen in Vic ..... ahmmmm .... Damn, I promised to be good.

Seriously tho, as has been said, it is only the year cut off point which prevents cobras from inclusion with Street Rods.