Why do I need a big block?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by OCCOBRA

I never hear about a guy with a big......Block wishing he had a little......Block!

That's pretty hard to argue against. I have never, ever, ever heard somebody say "I wish had a small block in this car instead of this FE" (unless it was broken, that is).

[Zoom This]

A 461W small block at 6800 rpm? I don't even want to know what the piston speeds are with a stroke to make those cubes. What's your cam specs?

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by patrickt

That's pretty hard to argue against. I have never, ever, ever heard somebody say "I wish had a small block in this car instead of this FE" (unless it was broken, that is).

I don't think there's any question that chopping 200 pounds off your weight and front-end load is good for handling. I've heard it said many times that the small-block cars are more nimble and handle more easily - not necessarily better, just with less throttle technique - than big blocks.

However, a lot of that might have to do with 150-200 fewer horses shoving things around, too. The typical 350 HP or so of a more traditional small-block is probably a better match to the chassis for most drivers and most hard-driving/track needs. If you want that combination - and it's a great one - IMHO stay with an FIA.

The biggest problem with these superheated small-blocks is going to be reliability/longevity. A big block will make 500-550 HP and easily have 25,000+ miles in it. I wouldn't write a 1,000-mile warranty for a 500+ HP small-block, even something girdled, beefed and braced to the max.

[Doug I]

It's not so much the piston speed that I'm thinking about, but rather the rod angles.

Those HP numbers are really good - really good. 642 on the engine dyno(?) translating to 559 on the chassis is a 13% loss. That loss seems a little on optimistic side, so maybe one of the dyno's had a slight tweak on the correction numbers? Even so, they are sort of both somewhat close to each other so the bottom line is the HP being laid down is "plenty !!"

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by priobe

I`LL BE RIGHT BACK. I going to get some popcorn......... does anyone need anything?

Yes, please get me a box of junior mints and an Icee.

Gunner, 200 lbs off the front end? I'm not sure that's true with an aluminum big block, with aluminum heads, with a Quicktime bellhousing, with an aluminum water pump, with an aluminum flywheel...etc., you know where I'm going now. Thus I don't buy the SBF versus BBF weight issue.

Also, BBF's can run upwards, to the best of my knowledge, of 527 cubic inches. More cubes, more power.

Now where's my junior mints and Icee?

[priobe]

RodKnock,

Junior Mints and Icee are on there way.

Also, Fe iron blocks with aluminum water pump, heads etc are only 150lbs shy of a 351 W.

(Excuse me...excuse me thats my seat right there)

[*13*]

Big Block car= Big Block motor
Small Block car = Small Block Motor
it's really all about sex appeal anyway

[Fordzilla]

The Shelby aluminum FE block will go up to 527 cubes. Genesis FE iron or aluminum will go to 542. The 385 series Ford BB will go even more cubes. I think to 567. Anyway, I've owned all of them. I've also owned some nasty small blocks but nothing as nasty as the big blocks. Anyway, to each his own. In my opinion if the money was all the same on them, then the BB would be most popular.

[madmaxx]

You dont want a playboy bunny for a wife. They are too theatrical and have a crisis everyday and without a crisis good or bad they are not happy. You want one as a girlfriend you can leave when you are tired of their bs.

The goodyear flat to much once again to much of a niche. If you dont drive to much they are great to look at but not practical.

I am too fat i would go with the 12 oz soda.

Originally Posted by DougD

You don't NEED a big block. You WANT one. Kinda like drinkin' a soda pop - you could buy a 12oz can, but why not go with the 20 oz version?

You don't NEED Halibrand ko's and Goodyear Blue Streaks- you WANT them. You could go with painted steel wagon spoke wheels and WalMart tires.

You don't NEED a Playboy Bunny for a wife. You WANT one. But you could marry the plain, slightly overweight librarian and be just as happy.

[madmaxx]

I drove a spf with a ford 460 and it was pathetically slow, in fact it only dynoed at 350 rwhp. Is a 460 considered a big block? My 76 Eldorado had an 8.2 liter, 501 cubic inch plant, I beleive at the time it was the largest production motor ever put in a car, I guess it was a big block. It was a dog, like watching the dirt get sucked off the street when the secondaries opened on the carb. It was front wheel drive.

In all seriosness what is the definition of a big block, anything over 350 cubic inches?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

Is a 460 considered a big block?

Yes, but they don't count.

[Tim Brewer]

The FE big block was replaced by the more modern 385 series big block, 429/460. If you would like to know what the difference is between a small block and a big block, all you would have to do would be to compare the cranks and heads between the two.

[patrickt]

It should be a crime to put a 460 in to a decent Cobra. In to a piece-of-crap Cobra, maybe; but not a nice one.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

It should be a crime to put a 460 in to a decent Cobra. In to a piece-of-crap Cobra, maybe; but not a nice one.

That's Patrick, he wrote the book on "How to win friends and influence people." He also ticked off the "7-11 car oil buying" crowd tonight too.

BTW, was DR385 banned from this site forever? I wonder if we can catch him on TV on a show like "Whatever happened to...?"

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

BTW, was DR385 banned from this site forever? I wonder if we can catch him on TV on a show like "Whatever happened to...?"

I think Ron bounced him for a week, but that was like a month or two ago. Maybe Ron just "forgot" to turn him back on.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Gunner, 200 lbs off the front end?

I was being generous. With an iron block and everything else aluminum the difference can be very small. I believe an all-ally big block can be brought into the weight range of an all-iron small block, although you'd have to be a real cheapskate to run iron heads and intake these days.

I think patrickt's nailed it, though. No one ever wishes they had a small block instead of an FE. And I suspect those who pick a small block (and aren't doing so to shave the cost) came from the late-model street racer crowd and have never had the option of a big block before. Better the devil you know, etc.

(What was the last serious big-block option in a performance car? I know the Gran Torinos had 429s and maybe 460s into about 1977... anything later? No, cop cars and Cadillacs don't count.)

Don't I get any Junior Mints?

[Tim Brewer]

Yo Pat...you trying to pick a fight? Keep your weenie thoughts to yourself..

[PLDRIVE]

WOW, you big block guys are soooooo sensitive! Is that Big Block Ego?

Anyway, moving forward I will try to answer a few of your questions.
1. Cam specs.
Duration 268 272, Lift 425 420 at 1.72 ratio (731 722), LCA 112
2. The engine had a lot of time on the dyno (cam was tried at several positions 108 through 112) before they found the sweet spot. Small Flange headers were used on the engine dyno. My headers are custom made, side pipes have Lobak race mufflers (large center) inside. This may account for the loss Ratio? I don't know.
3. I spoke to eagle and Dart about the rod ratio. They were not concerned. Eagle said they felt comfortable up to 7500 RPM with the rotating assembly. Shift light is set at 6600 rev limiter 7100.

http://s540.photobucket.com/albums/gg351/pldrive/

[twin turbo]

PLDRIVE, congrats on the numbers, sounds like fun. Regarding the big block vs small block thing, I think for some of the big block guys it comes down to the nostalgia of a 427 Cobra having an FE.
It does seem funny though that some of the big block crowd claims their cars are faster, sound better, and are similiar weights.
There are small block cars that will smoke a big block, and visa versa.
There are small block cars that sound better than a big block, and visa versa.
Apples to apples, a small block weighs less. If you're going to try and use an all aluminum big block to make your case, you need to compare it to an all aluminum small block.
Personally, I wouldn't want an FE, but I'm not as nostalgic as some others, my priorities are different. Cheers.

[RICK LAKE]

PLDRIVE Depending on HOW deep your pocket is, has alot to do with building a cobra with either a SB or BB. For a street car, either motor works great, they sound different depending on the camshaft and exhaust on the car. For a track car, the windsor motor is cheaper to build, more race parts, and better machine shops to have the work done on them. You can get great power numbers from them 600-800HP with good parts. The catch is this, the more you stress you have on this motor the shorter the life it has. SB HP range is higher than most BB motors except for Cammers. Weight of between motors is about 50-70 pound with All aluminum motors from front to back. My Shelby complete was 496 minus oil.
A weber 289 looks perfect in a FIA cobra. An FE motor looks better in an SC body cobra than an FIA. The stroker 351 in the orignials did not have a place in the history of cobra racing and is making strong cases today.
IMO I would but happier with a 6,000 rpm torque motor with 600ft of torque than a 600HP at 7,000 rpms. The fact of having 100+pounds of rotating mass is a disadvantage compared to you 68-72 pounds in the same lite car
Your stroker should live for many years with good maintainance and cutting open oil filters and check for any metal. As others have said, warming a motor up before beating on it and my favorite of having a preoiler before startup and use it on road courses will help in the long run. Good luck with the car, hoping to see it run on the track, roadcourse not 1/4 mile. Rick L.