Prestart engine lube....does this work?

[YerDugliness]

I am considering a rebuild of the 1989 5.0 HO engine in the Cobra, and in the interest of longevity I would like to consider a prelube system to be used before starting the engine. In the past, understanding that a large part of engine wear is induced during the first few seconds before the oil pump gets the oil circulated throughout the engine, I have disconnected the coil wire from the distributor and then cranked the engine until oil pressure registered on the gauge....after which I would crank the engine for another 5 or 10 seconds, then reconnect the coil wire and start the engine. I don't know if this worked or not, but it seemed better than cold-starting the engine.

I know that this product (an Accusump oil accumilator) would probably be better, just wondering if I have been kidding myself for all these years that I might have been helping avoid dry-start damages:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTR-24-006/

What do you all think? Were my efforts effective? I was more worried about the main/rod bearings than the pistons....figured that until the pistons got up to operating temperature, the clearance between the skirt and the bore would be adequate and that there would be plenty of oil in that area by the time the piston got heated up.

Cheers from Dugly

[bobcowan]

I think you wasted your time and efforts by disconnecting the coil wire.

I suspect you actually did more damage than good, by cranking it so long at a low rpm - but I could be wrong.

All the data seems to indicate that pre-oiling the engine before starting decreases initial wear, and the engine will last longer. But, keep in mind that a well maintained engine will easily last 100-150K miles. How much longer do you need?

[redmt]

I always pull the distributor and spin the oil pump with a drill until getting oil to the top end. After getting oil to the rockers, I crank the engine over still with the drill to turn the oil pump. When you put the covers on and set the timing it only takes a nano-second to build pressure.

[Gaz64]

Prelubing the engine stationary is the ONLY way.

Do not crank a new engine to get oil pressure.

The engine needs to fire up just as quickly as a good running engine does.

Carbs need to set and ignition advance near enough correct for fire up, especially with flat tappet cams, otherwise goodbye lobes.

[YerDugliness]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, guys....I'm aware of break-in startup procedures, I was talking about everyday use, or at least starting the engine after it had been sitting for a couple of weeks or so (I haven't started the engine in the Cobra for about a year now, but I plan on it soon, so I have a real reason to hope there will be some benefit).

Originally Posted by bobcowan

All the data seems to indicate that pre-oiling the engine before starting decreases initial wear, and the engine will last longer. But, keep in mind that a well maintained engine will easily last 100-150K miles. How much longer do you need?

Well, I suspect that a well-maintained engine built for stock or near stock use might well last that long, but think about the stresses imposed by the type of driving we all enjoy (we don't have Cobras so we can drive like Grandma, now, do we.....unless she was that legendary "Little Ol' Lady from Pasadena").

I plan on building an engine that will withstand some high RPM, spirited use, last me a reasonable amount of time (I'd be happy with 50,000 miles) and then take a rebuild without having to be bored for larger pistons or have the crank ground. I'd rather invest up front than later down the line. I'm not the type to over-rev my engine, I'll be very careful about honoring the redline the engine builder recommends, for me it's all about reliability and durability.

Originally Posted by bobcowan

I think you wasted your time and efforts by disconnecting the coil wire.

I suspect you actually did more damage than good, by cranking it so long at a low rpm - but I could be wrong.

I've often wondered, Bob....my hope was to avoid excess "wear and tear" on the rod bearings by not starting the engine without lube on them after having set up for a while. I believed that disconnecting the coil wire would eliminate the "pressure" of the combustion event, hoping that the bearings would be spared the pounding from the exploding air/fuel mixture until there was lubrication from the dry-spin by the starter.

I'm sure that the Accusump system would be superior in achieving my goals here, and in the end I'll probably invest in something of the sort in yet another effort to keep the engine alive longer. I'm just wondering if it really is necessary, or if spinning the engine without letting it fire up might provide the protection I need.

Thanks, guys.....post on, please.

Cheers from Dugly

[bobcowan]

Use an accusump with a manual valve. The electric valve is a little more convenient, but it will soon fail. At least, mine did.

Will it increase the longevity of your engine? IDK, maybe. But it will help you sleep at night. And, IMO, that's reason enough.

[Ant]

My work car has done 500,000k with no engine work at all, just 10,000k oil filter changes and the usual plugs etc, I drive it just as hard as when I first did.

New engine manually prime oil pump until oil come out of ALL pushrods/rockers before turning crankshaft over.

I am dry sump so after I re-prime my engine since the dyno work, I will heat my oil tank and start it normally. If several weeks elapse between startups I may hand prime the system with external oil pump, but I dont really think there is an issue if you use a good quality oil as there should be still plenty on the bearings etc.

[undy]

I swear by my accusump.

Had it for years, same electric solenoid valve too. I've 25 psi oil pressure before I crank the engine. The crank and rods are already tightly squeezed by a 360 degree pressurized oil wedge by the flip of a lighted dash swith (right next to the fixed Halon sytem actuator). There's z-e-r-o metal to metal contact upon start-up. If I had flat tappet lifters I would not want them rubbing on ANY cam lobe that was dry.

BTW... 2 quart for pre-lube only duties & 3 quart if you're going to use it for loss of oil pressure problems at the track. The "pre-lube" style electric solenoid will not work for track duty either. If you want track & Prelube you'll need to plumb in 2 separate solenoids/valves.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by YerDugliness

I've often wondered, Bob....my hope was to avoid excess "wear and tear" on the rod bearings by not starting the engine without lube on them after having set up for a while. I believed that disconnecting the coil wire would eliminate the "pressure" of the combustion event, hoping that the bearings would be spared the pounding from the exploding air/fuel mixture until there was lubrication from the dry-spin by the starter.

Best way to do that would be to just remove all spark plugs. This way the engine will almost free-wheel with the starter. Just pulling the coil wire by itself will still allow compression to build in the cylinders.

Without a doubt, the Accusump is the best way of handling a dry start. However, if one is not available and it's been a couple of weeks since the engine has been started, then I would use the method above. Keep in mind that a bearing will probably never be absolutely dry with oil. I've torn down engines that have been sitting for years and the crank journals/bearings still have oil on them.

[Jerry Clayton]

most important is to ground the coil wire if you pull it so you don't kill your electronics

[dcdoug]

So if the cobra has been sitting for a month or so (longest my car ever sits without being driven), which of these options are the best for an FE:

1) Pull coil wire and crank until oil pressure gauge shows movement (less than 10 sec)
2) Just start the car (which sometimes takes a bit of time anyway when it's cold with no choke)

[undy]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

So if the cobra has been sitting for a month or so (longest my car ever sits without being driven), which of these options are the best for an FE:

1) Pull coil wire and crank until oil pressure gauge shows movement (less than 10 sec)
2) Just start the car (which sometimes takes a bit of time anyway when it's cold with no choke)

...start it!

[289ERAkit]

Typical Scenario : Engine has been setting for a year.
1-Pull the distributer….and spin the pump with an aftermarket oil shaft tool. Note:351w CCW rotation.
2-Pull the coil wire….(and ground it ???) please explain how & why?
3-Pull the plugs…. and spin the engine….4-5 revolutions.
4-Put all back to running order….and (maybe give it a squirt of starter spray down the carb to help wake it up).
5-Start engine….maintain at 1,500 RPM for 20-40 seconds.
For solid lifters….always best to do above procedure or invest in a pre-lube device.
Could someone elaborate on step #2..... with and without MSD? tx

[SuperHart]

I have used a product called "PreLuber" since I built my roadster in 2001. This is an electrically operated pump that draws oil from the oil pan just like the oil pump does, passes the oil through the oil filter and pressurizes the engine prior to startup. The system was easy to install and wire up and came with all the fittings needed. I have the lines plumbed into my sandwich style oil cooler adapter/thermostat fitting between the engine block and oil filter. It automatically operates when I turn the key to the ON position. The pump turns on and in a few seconds builds oil pressure. Then I start the motor. The pump operates for approximately 30-45 seconds and will provide up to around 45 lbs. of oil pressure. The PreLuber works every time I start up the engine and has worked flawlessly for me for 10 years now. I am partial to this unit over the vacuum operated AccuSump systems. Because of how this unit works, I have never had to pull a distributor, prime the system, etc. Even on initial firing of the new motor, the PreLuber built up oil pressure just fine. When changing the oil and installing a new filter, the PreLuber builds up good oil pressure before cranking the motor.

For anyone who is interested, here is the link to the manufacturer http://www.pre-luber.com/

[Ant]

With my dry sump pump pulley and nut hard to get at, and having to take the belt off to hand turn the pump over to prime the engine this would be a hassle. I am not keen on fitting a one way valve on the main oil gallery feed line for an Accusump.

Another saying by McDonnell Douglass is each time you start and engine it is equivalent to a 500 mile trip, that might be with an aeroplane. My road car has been started est 10000 times and at 500,000k, probably on that basis this car has done 5 million more than the speedometer shows. Food for thought, it is better to have an overkill in Lubrication than not enough.

[vector1]

somebody tells me they prelube their engine prior to startup i pull out a bunch of health care pamplets and commence a sales pitch.....

[RICK LAKE]

YerDugliness Any chance of getting a first Name?? Any way most of this has been covered well. I do run and have run a accusump for 12 years. It has saved my motor twice at the track with the breakage of rocker shafts. I ran a 452 motor for 8 years. The bottom end still looked like new the all the abuse I had done. 98% was track time. I am following the same course with 482 motor.
Preoiling goes without question before cranking or starting a car. I also believe in an oil additive for the motor. The ones that seam to work the best are EOS from GM and Lucas oil suppliment,( if this is installed correctly with a warm motor and slow pour)
Unless you have a fuel cutoff valve or run the carb dry, you have problem number 2. Cranking the motor without a coil wire on is fine. If you have fuel going into the carb, this means that some of it is getting into the cylinders and washing them down. This means no lube for Mr. Rings, piston skirts, and piston pin. They all need splash to get lubed unless pressure fed.
As far as the prelubers, DEPENDING on where the oil is coming from would a use this. There is no filter to clean the oil before going into the motor. The first pickup point is the drain plug in the oil pan. Think about this, Where does all the crap go to in the motor over time?? what if you have a motor with worn bearings, the metal DOESN'T always get to the filter. You are sucking on the bottom of the oil pan. These preoilers are good for new motor startups and cool down on turbo motors IF the pickup is NOT at the bottom of the oil pan. A Min of 1" off the bottom of the pan is a better location and over fill the motor by 1 quart. Adding a filter would also be a good thing or running the system through the oil filter on the car if possible BEFORE having this oil get into the motor.
If you have not started your motor for 1 year and didn't fog it before putting it away, Couple of things here
Remove spark plugs and spray WD-40 in all the holes and let sit over night. If the oil was new in the motor, remove distributor and spin with 1/2" drill to build up pressure. reinstalled distributor soon as possible. have tester plugs reinstalled. Fire up motor to high setiting on choke, 1,200-1,300 rpms and let run. at this time watch oil pressure and listen to motor, may have stuck lifters. If have this sound add small bottle of marvel mistery oil into motor warm to quiet noises.
Check carb bowls for being clean and watch for gaskets not sealing when you do start the motor and run motor. Take off the choke but leave the rpm on higher than idle until coolant fan cycles on and off for 2 cycles. Let motor idle down and listen for noises. If none, let motor cool off. Change oil and filter, install new spark plugs, set timing and go for a cruise. NO 6,000 rpm blasts at this time. Motor is no different from you after sleeping, needs a warm shower to get the joints moving. I would add 1 extra quart of oil to the motor and a bottle of Lucas. Good Luck Rick L.

[madmaxx]

You guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Anybody realize how many millions of boats sit for 6 months over the winter. 95% are just cranked up. There is plenty of residual oil in your engines. You are going to create a problem. By the way the first time your crank touches a bearing it will be wiped proven oil remains. Go pickup a journal bearing, you can scracth with your fingernail.

[RICK LAKE]

Max is off the meds again. Diesel against a gas motor, Diesel oil is not the same as normal car oil. Depending on the bearing hard ness, yes you can scratch the COATING on the bearing, not the metal or tri metal surface itself. You are right about cranking a motor with no oil pressure. This is why some oils are clinging oils that keep the surface coating for weeks. The crank doesn't rub metal to metal on these surfaces. Max get some rest and take your med's. Ant hills can be 30' high, mole hills 6-8', not sure about what mountain range you are thinking but it's not that important. Rick L.

[madmaxx]

Now that the national health care plan is killed where will I get my meds, I guess Mexico, maybe Canada. Who knows. I crank my ole gasoline mercruiser up every spring for the last 22 years with no prelube, just a little ether in the carb, for you youngens that starting fluid, hey now there an idea, maybe I will snort the ether instead of the meds, gotta be cheaper.

I dont own a diesal powered boat for the simple reasong I could not smell the ether in the cool spring air. The majority of the members of this forum outside patrick and mr mustang make the best customers, they are simply ignorant and want to be told to do something so they can feel good about do nothing maintenance.