64 289

[jebus2a]

Hello everyone,
I am trying to get info about an engine I have. I bought it about 20 years ago for $500. I thought it was a 1965 260 with 351w heads. I put it in my 67 Fairlane and beat on it.
I took it apart last fall and found out it is a 1964. I'm told that the 65 260 and the 64 hipo 289 share the same block number-C4OE-6015. It has a 4" bore so I think it is the 289.
I would appreciate any help to be sure.
If it's from an old AC-Cobra, I think it should go back into one.

[1985 CCX]

This has already been discussed:

1965 289 HP C5AE-E blocks

http://www.hipomustang.com/images/hipoeng/

Very little difference between Hypo and std block... 289's are nice however date coded 427 S.O. has waaaay more value.

[PDUB]

I don't think Ford made the 260 in '65... that was done with in '64 when the 5-bolt block ended. The 260 has a 3.8" bore, so you have a 289, with 4" bore, and the engineering number for the 260 is C3OE-6015 E, whereas the '64 289 is C4OE-6015 E or C4AE-6015 E. The hipo motors use the same blocks, thus the same numbers, but the main caps are different.

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by PDUB

...the engineering number for the 260 is C3OE-6015 E, whereas the '64 289 is C4OE-6015 E or C4AE-6015 E. The hipo motors use the same blocks, thus the same numbers, but the main caps are different.

There were some other differences, too....for example, there was a circular "weight" on the crank of the hi-po, at the area between the first crank throw and the block, but that's not why I called .

I've often wondered if there isn't some way to replace the less than effective main caps on the 289 series with better ones....it seems to me somebody ought to sell 4-bolt main caps that could be line-bored to the correct ID and a machine shop could tap the main webs for the outer bolts.

Of course, that's too simple....it can't be an original thought, so maybe someone does.

Anyone know anything about this?

BTW, I have located what I think is a '65 Galaxie with a 289 and a 3-speed manual (3 on the tree). I thought it would be a "5-bolt block", but do I understand correctly that if it is a 289 or a 1965, it will NOT be a 5 bolt block?

Cheers from Dugly

[DAVID GAGNARD]

[QUOTEBTW, I have located what I think is a '65 Galaxie with a 289 and a 3-speed manual (3 on the tree). I thought it would be a "5-bolt block", but do I understand correctly that if it is a 289 or a 1965, it will NOT be a 5 bolt block?

][/quote]

Only way to be 100% sure is look at the back of the block, 6 bolt blocks should have started with the 1965 production, but a few may have been 5 bolt blocks as production changed over, they are rare,but there are some out there.........

David

[PDUB]

Greetings Dugly!

Originally Posted by YerDugliness

There were some other differences, too....for example, there was a circular "weight" on the crank of the hi-po, at the area between the first crank throw and the block, but that's not why I called .

Yes, but he was asking about the block... not the crank/counterweight.

Originally Posted by YerDugliness

I've often wondered if there isn't some way to replace the less than effective main caps on the 289 series with better ones....it seems to me somebody ought to sell 4-bolt main caps that could be line-bored to the correct ID and a machine shop could tap the main webs for the outer bolts.

Of course, that's too simple....it can't be an original thought, so maybe someone does.

Anyone know anything about this?

Well, the stock main caps aren't all that bad. The 289s spin up pretty good and hold together well... within reason of course. But if you need more, you can get heavy-duty 2-bolt aftermarket main caps at any good speed shop. Here is a link to some Dart 4-bolt ones, though not sure that they would work... check with your machinist:

http://www.dartheads.com/products/ford-main-cap-3.html

Originally Posted by YerDugliness

BTW, I have located what I think is a '65 Galaxie with a 289 and a 3-speed manual (3 on the tree). I thought it would be a "5-bolt block", but do I understand correctly that if it is a 289 or a 1965, it will NOT be a 5 bolt block?

Cheers from Dugly

No, as I mentioned above, the 289 came in a 5-bolt variant in '63-'64. If it is a '65 however, it is the 6-bolt version. Ford quit making 5-bolt production 289 blocks at the end of July 1964. They did continue making 5-bolt service parts into '65... hope that helps. All you need to do is look at the engineering number. If it is a C5AE-6015 E, then you have a 6-bolt block. See my post above for the 5-bolt block engineering numbers. The date code, right above the engineering number will tell you when it was cast. Ford began casting the early '65 6-bolt blocks in mid '64, and the earliest one I've seen was cast in July of '64, maybe they made them even earlier...

Keep in mind that it may not have the original engine in it...

Good luck with it.

[jebus2a]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

This has already been discussed:

1965 289 HP C5AE-E blocks

http://www.hipomustang.com/images/hipoeng/

Very little difference between Hypo and std block... 289's are nice however date coded 427 S.O. has waaaay more value.

I am new to this so I wasn't aware of your previous discussions...
I am also aware that there are few differences between blocks. That is what led me to this site where I thought I may get some info. Thanks for the help and the value comparison, as I now know that a 427 is more valuable than a 289.

[Rick Parker]

There have been from time to time on Ebay (and other place) advertised 4 bolt caps to the used as a replacement on "Stock" 2 bolt blocks. HOWEVER, from what I recall there isn't a lot of material (thick webs?) for the outer bolt holes to be machined into, otherwise I think it would be a more popular conversion. Anyone else have any coments on this ????? I also would have liked to see a forged steel crank available for 289's. This is one area it seems like Chevrolet always had a leg up on Ford, their cranks for the most part were forged. Although the cast cranks did OK, the "Little Bird" is always sitting on your shoulder, whispering in your ear as the tach goes past 7000 rpm??

[olddog]

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

There have been from time to time on Ebay (and other place) advertised 4 bolt caps to the used as a replacement on "Stock" 2 bolt blocks. HOWEVER, from what I recall there isn't a lot of material (thick webs?) for the outer bolt holes to be machined into, otherwise I think it would be a more popular conversion. Anyone else have any coments on this ????? I also would have liked to see a forged steel crank available for 289's. This is one area it seems like Chevrolet always had a leg up on Ford, their cranks for the most part were forged. Although the cast cranks did OK, the "Little Bird" is always sitting on your shoulder, whispering in your ear as the tach goes past 7000 rpm??

I have heard some builders say not to put 4 bolt caps on 2 bolt blocks for that very reason.

Chevy only put the steel cranks in their high performance engines. The rest got cast iron. The Chevy small journal engines did break quite a few cast iron cranks, which is why they stepped up to the large journal. I never heard of a small journal steel crank breaking, but I'm also not in a position to know all things.

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

There have been from time to time on Ebay (and other place) advertised 4 bolt caps to the used as a replacement on "Stock" 2 bolt blocks. HOWEVER, from what I recall there isn't a lot of material (thick webs?) for the outer bolt holes to be machined into, otherwise I think it would be a more popular conversion.

I think a set of cross-bolted mains would be great.....not sure if there is enough skirt to bolt to, though. The mains would be quite "wide", that's for sure!! I could see an extra pair of small diameter main bolts in the webs and two more cross-bolted in. Sounds like it would be a great setup and not require a main-girdle.

Cheers from Doug

[blykins]

For 302 based engines engines between 400-450hp, I don't use main girdles. A good set of ARP main studs seems to do just fine. When the engine comes close to pushing 500hp and/or turning some high revs, then I do what I can to stabilize the bottom end.

Four bolt caps in a small block really isn't accomplishing much. As some of you have pointed out, there's really not that much material there and you take a chance of just making things weaker. As a matter of fact, 2 bolt Cleveland blocks are preferred over 4 bolt Cleveland blocks. This goes the same with 2 and 4 bolt Chevy 400 SBC blocks (unless they're aftermarket).

On a skirted block (like an FE, LS, modular Ford, etc), crossbolted main caps will significantly add strength and are a good idea.