Change of oil and found metallic spring etc inside - need your advise.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

With the kind of damage you have, I would not trust the engine, you don't know what little parts/pieces went were and could have damaged other things, I would pull the motor and do a complete teardown and clean up everything........if I remember correctly, you said you drove the car like this for some miles?? There is a good chance that some of those broken pieces got "slung" around the internal moving parts and easlily could have damaged the crank/rods/camshaft....I just wouldn't trust it,till I knew for sure that there was no other damage internally...
On the opposite side, there is a push rod out of the lifter, did the rocker stud break on that one also??
2 things I noticed, the intake gaskets do not look like the correct ones for the cylinder heads, they'll work, but they cover part of the intake ports, the other thing is the push rods with pressed-in balls on the ends..I quit using that type years ago after pulling a motor with a few thousand miles on it and finding 3 of the balls missing, one was in the oil pan, the other 2 were ground up in the engine......I only use one-piece push rods...

Still wondering what type of cylinder heads are on the car, can't tell from the pictures...

David

[andronikos916]

Yes these are the push-rods and cylinders from the 2 rocker arms failed. Both rocker studs brake. They have the exact same damage.

I was also discussing it with Eric earlier. He suggested to do a drain check (if I say that correctly). To remove all rocker arms and have a mechanic to check that. To make sure that all valves and pistons are ok. My car has also a rev limiter at 6000rpm - so I do not think that this damage was from over-revs.

Yes I have done at least 10-15miles like that. Maybe more - I really do not know how many. If the car was like that from the day I got it (99.99% sure that car was like that cause I never felt a difference when I was driving it) then I have done more than 150miles - who knows how many the previous owner...

Good to know about the 1pice push-rods and thank for mentioning about the gaskets... Thank you for the info.

Yes I put the intake back on - so nothing bad / dirt / dust goes inside. If needed I can take some more pics to better see the cylinder heads and find the correct gaskets.

For your information I was about to order the following gasket:
1262-S - Fel-Pro intake gasket set

Best - Andronikos,

[Wbulk]

It would be interesting to see if those two push rods are bent. Roll them on a counter to see if they are straight. You can collect all your parts to see if your are missing any others that would be in the pan. Finding the cause is the challenge. I would still check the lifter adjustment (preload) on another lifter like I discussed earlier.

Putting the distributor back in is more involved that just taking it out like you did. Those gears have to mesh on the right one and it rotates to adjust the timiing. Ask for help when you get to that point.

I think a lot of guys are not using those fel-pro gaskets anymore for the intake. I think those ones you have on there have had problems with those rubber seals.
Wayne

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by andronikos916

Yes these are the push-rods and cylinders from the 2 rocker arms failed. Both rocker studs brake. They have the exact same damage.

I was also discussing it with Eric earlier. He suggested to do a drain check (if I say that correctly). To remove all rocker arms and have a mechanic to check that. To make sure that all valves and pistons are ok. My car has also a rev limiter at 6000rpm - so I do not think that this damage was from over-revs.

Yes I have done at least 10-15miles like that. Maybe more - I really do not know how many. If the car was like that from the day I got it (99.99% sure that car was like that cause I never felt a difference when I was driving it) then I have done more than 150miles - who knows how many the previous owner...

Good to know about the 1pice push-rods and thank for mentioning about the gaskets... Thank you for the info.

Yes I put the intake back on - so nothing bad / dirt / dust goes inside. If needed I can take some more pics to better see the cylinder heads and find the correct gaskets.

For your information I was about to order the following gasket:
1262-S - Fel-Pro intake gasket set

Best - Andronikos,

The reason I asked what type cylinder heads, that will determine which intake gaskets to use....Edelbrock cylinders heads for instance do not all use the same gasket, you need to look up the type cylinder head you have and use what the manufacter recommends...Fel-Pro makes at least a half dozen gaskets for small block Ford engines!!!!
With the mileage on the engine "as is" you can't be sure other internal parts have not been damaged, for peace of mind, if it were mine, I'd tear it down copmpletely......
David

[andronikos916]

Yes I will take a video (during daylight) when I am removing the push rods and doing a lifter adjustment check to see if they are over tightened.

I start to understand the mechanics of the car - ( watching 10hrs / day videos and reading books) - felling confident and for sure I will do my very best to find the cause of the damage...

Yes I know it is difficult to put it back on. Of course I do not know how exactly but we will figure that one also when time comes. I really had to remove it - there was not enough space to pull the intake out.

Thank you all guys for your great help,
Andronikos

[andronikos916]

How can I check what cylinder heads I have?

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by andronikos916

How can I check what cylinder heads I have?

Engine builder should have that info, also,I would ask if there were any modifications to the heads from new....There should also be name/numbers between the rocker studs and the name on the outside ends of each cylinder head, that may be hard to see with the accesories though...
I can understand you wanting to do the work yourself,it's rewarding to say you did it and the only way to learn, but I would suggest at least have an expirenced mechanic help you check things out and be there for the re-assembly....not doing something correctly becasue you just didn't know how to do it could be costly....been there,done that......

Putting the distributor back in is not hard,just have to follow certain procedures to get it right........

take the two rockers arms that had broken studs, then them over and look for marks where they could have hit the valve spring retainer...wipe them clean and look good or post pictures......

David

[andronikos916]

Thanx David,

Yes I am not trying to feed my "ego" at this point. The reason I am asking (as you probably understood) is to fell confident with the basic engine theory and of course to learn my engine and with the help of the mechanic to properly fix it (when time comes).

I guess my mechanic will have many eyes watching him from the other side of the ocean since I will post a lot videos to make sure we did everything right. :-)

Best - Andronikos,

[madmaxx]

YOU WANT THE FELPRO GASKETS WITH THE STEEL INSERT!!!!! I would replace the damaged studs, pushrods, and verify correct geometry and go back together, no need to pull engine. You can drop the pan and clean off oil pump screen if you want. Anything that got past the oil pump screen was caught in the oil filter. I did extensive testing and even at 40F the oil filter only had 5psig differential so it never by-passes which requires 9-11psig. Dont waste your money.

[madmaxx]

Once you pull the lifters you can inspect the camshaft lobes

[madmaxx]

This is the intake gasket p/n Fel-Pro Q1262S3 - Fel-Pro Performance Intake Manifold Gasket Sets. you want the (S3) which stands for steel laminate, the 1262 distort since it has no steel laminate.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

YOU WANT THE FELPRO GASKETS WITH THE STEEL INSERT!!!!! I would replace the damaged studs, pushrods, and verify correct geometry and go back together, no need to pull engine. You can drop the pan and clean off oil pump screen if you want. Anything that got past the oil pump screen was caught in the oil filter. I did extensive testing and even at 40F the oil filter only had 5psig differential so it never by-passes which requires 9-11psig. Dont waste your money.

What about those parts found in the oil pan???? on their way to the bottom of the pan, do you think they didn't hit any of the rotating assembly??? any of those pieces hitting the spining crank would have been shot somewhere inside the engine before finally ending up in the pan, could have easily hit the cam/any rod or rods/or the bottom of a piston and done some damage.....I'd spend the time and the cost of a new set of gaskets finding out if it were mine. A lot less esxpensive than finding out later when something lets go... and how about a valve hitting a piston when the rocker stud broke,how can that be checked without pulling the head?
David

[mreid]

When the rocker stud breaks, the valve closes so no real chance of a valve hitting a piston. The cam is pretty safe, too, but I agree with David, at least drop the pan and check out the crank and rods. The lifter body normally maintains position in the lifter bore when the guts are crushed and the lifter roller keeps its orientation to the cam, so unless there was significant pressure the cam should be fine.

[andronikos916]

Thank you guys. I am going now to the mechanic to do the following:

- Collect all broken parts, to check if there are any missing.
- Check the damaged push-rods if are bended
- Check the lifter adjustment (preload) on another lifter
- Do the oil drain check for possible damage on valves or pistons
- Drop pan inspect rods and crank

What is the "correct" valve geometry? What I need to check?

Best - Andronikos.

[Wbulk]

Just roll those push rods on a flat counter and you can see if they are bent.
On the valve geometry there are three basic areas that could cause problems. 1. The distance from the bottom of the retainer to the top of the valve seal- This distance has to be greater than the valve lift designed into the cam. If not the bottom of the retainer can hit the valve stem and do damage. The valves springs have to be removed to check this. 2. Coil Bind- When the valve is fully open you should have about .060" clearance between each coil of the spring. Often times coil bind is from the use of the wrong spring for higher a lift cam. Changing the spring, retainer, or the valves can effect this. 3. Retainer to Rocker Clearance- The rocker on the inside my hit the spring retainer because the rocker is not compatable with the diameter of the spring used.

A lot of the cam companies have tech information in their catalogs that explain these in detail. Usually you can download those in PDF files.

Wayne

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by andronikos916

Thank you guys. I am going now to the mechanic to do the following:

- Collect all broken parts, to check if there are any missing.
- Check the damaged push-rods if are bended
- Check the lifter adjustment (preload) on another lifter
- Do the oil drain check for possible damage on valves or pistons
- Drop pan inspect rods and crank

What is the "correct" valve geometry? What I need to check?

Best - Andronikos.

I'm pretty sure you mean leak down test. Here is a pretty good article on it.
I would guess there are even videos on youtube that would help too.

How to do Cylinder Leak Down Testing- Car Craft Magazine

[mreid]

Fred's right. A leak down test will show you if damage was done to a valve. Each cylinder is tested for compression and for how long it is able to hold compression. It is a better test in your case that a simple compression check. Bent valves, valves that don't seat properly, and ring sealing are all verified by this test.

I'm cheering for you and hoping that the only damage is to the lifters, studs, and rockers! I guess we will find out soon.

[andronikos916]

Hello guys,

Tomorrow I am going to do all test. Had some work to do in my office. Last week I was working non-stop on learning Cobra engines. My clients will kill me!

Thank you for correcting about the "leak down test". Thank you for the link also.

Also I have some belt alignment issues. But I will go on that later. 1 step at a time. I think needs another thread.

Best - Andronikos,

[Curt C.]

Has Eric speculated why the studs broke?

[andronikos916]

He asked me to do the leak down test 1st. I believe he wants to see first what is the damage on the engine before start discussing what caused the failure.

Best - Andronikos,