horsepwer TV 600 hp 351 / 427 stroker

[madmaxx]

Anybody see horsepower TV? They used the new Ford Boss 351 stroked to 427 and got 610hp!!!!! Cam was a trickflow 232 / 248 duration 585?/590 lift, trickflow heads. They only used 330 open and 130 seat valve springs and did not float valves all the way to 6500 rpm. I have the identicle cam and floated the valves at 5500 rpm with 145 / 370 until I went with 170 seat and 450 open. Anyway they used the generic oil pump where the shaft did not protrude thru the bottom cover I thought was risky. Anyway 610hp!!!!!!!!!

[fordracing65]

I saw the episode. Dyno meters lie all the time. lol

[RICK LAKE]

Madmaxx Max here's another case of BS. Look at the EMC event and at the numbers from the Chiwindsor headed motors. These numbers are with a ton of work. Even the motor you are running is about the same with better springs, Are you making over 600 with a small cam at the flywheel?? This is as good as the Supersnake against the cobra in HotRod mag. Cobra beats the snake off the line, they run the same numbers in top end at 122 mph and yet SOMEHOW one runs a 12.2 and the other runs a 12.9. With a 452 stroker and 9.2 compression,3.31 gears, I ran 12.8 at 108mph. This was on a good track in 95f temps at gateway. Supersnake had new slicks and the cobra was running old billboards. They also had SUPERDRIVER, with a couple of years raceracing and about 5 minutes of 1/4 mile knowledge. This guy knows nothing about driving cobra and the supersnake can make anyone look like a pro with 750 HP.It's amazing how everybody brings out a cobra for one of these events that then try to do everything possible to SMEAR it with losing. Bad driver, old tires, worn out clutch, worn out motor, bad trans, and the list goes on. If you want to see a cobra do it's thing, goggle Opltimate battery challenge of 2 years ago and watch how bad and mad the guys who put this event on where. #3120 was invited back but, "NO COBRA". So he used his street GT-40 which also showed and did well for little added work. If someone had helped Bruce with the tires, this also might have ended with a better finish. Runmor has it the that he had only 28psi in rear tires and needed about 40psi. rearend all over the place and still ran .3 to almost win the autocross or road race. Let me know about that bridge Max. Ps it's numbered and everything Rick L.

[blykins]

That's why real engine builders get a bad rap sometimes....because of the junk that people watch on TV.

I didn't watch the show, but there's nothing that you told me that is anywhere near reality.

I get so tired of happy dynos and morons on TV shows.

[Wbulk]

The last week in December 2010 they took a stock crate 302, put on a Summit 600 cfm carb and intake, changed the cam, and claimed it put out I believe 296 hp. In the episode they never said what the cam specs were, only that they got it from Summit. I sent two emails asking what the cam was with no reply. On their website they still don't make available that episodes specs. A couple of months ago they set up a ring and pinion all wrong. I sent them and email if they don't know how to do it bring in an expert, so they don't mislead people. It's like watching cartoons.

[blykins]

The Mike guy puts a cam in like he's throwing a javelin. I've never heard so much clanging in my life as the journals hit every part of the block that they can on the way in.

They are not engine builders by any means....just a receptacle for manufacturers to spend advertising money.

Anybody can bolt engine parts together then tweak the correction factor on the dyno.

[madmaxx]

I would be lucky if I am seeing 425hp at the rear wheels. They were convincing, started at 587 played with timing no improvement, then swapped carb, no improvement, then played with timing after carb swap and finally got above 600hp. Last week they had a 455 olds could not get 455hp until he determined the weights in the dist were sticking. pretty cool show.

[JustOne]

Those were real numbers for that combination. They started with the Boss 427 short block, used the TFS 225 cc High Port heads, Super Victor Intake, and an 850 QFT carb. They could have done more with a bigger cam, but that is right at 1.42 HP per cubic inch in a very streetable package.

Justin

[blykins]

Dynos are a necessary evil.

The first time a dyno publically (or internet-ly) shows high on a particular combination, then every engine builder in the US is held to a standard.

That TV engine would have made about 540-550hp on the dyno that I use.

In all reality, I'd rather have a stingy dyno than a liberal dyno. If my dyno shows that you have 600hp and you put down a 14.50 on the track, then something's up. If my dyno shows that you have 450hp and you run a 10.80, then that makes everybody look good.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by blykins

Dynos are a necessary evil.

The first time a dyno publically (or internet-ly) shows high on a particular combination, then every engine builder in the US is held to a standard.

That TV engine would have made about 540-550hp on the dyno that I use.

In all reality, I'd rather have a stingy dyno than a liberal dyno. If my dyno shows that you have 600hp and you put down a 14.50 on the track, then something's up. If my dyno shows that you have 450hp and you run a 10.80, then that makes everybody look good.

The shop I use down here to dyno my junk told me he wished he had 10 bucks for every 600hp engine he has dynoed that barley made 400hp!!!!!!!!!

David

[blykins]

A conservative dyno will humble all men.

[mpanten]

Originally Posted by blykins

Dynos are a necessary evil.

The first time a dyno publically (or internet-ly) shows high on a particular combination, then every engine builder in the US is held to a standard.

That TV engine would have made about 540-550hp on the dyno that I use.

In all reality, I'd rather have a stingy dyno than a liberal dyno. If my dyno shows that you have 600hp and you put down a 14.50 on the track, then something's up. If my dyno shows that you have 450hp and you run a 10.80, then that makes everybody look good.

Interestingly i just did some research on this. Its amazing how much difference there is between the dynos. From what I can tell the order is
1. Dyno dynamics- lowest readings
2. Mustang dyno- middle of the road
3. Dyno Jet. - Highest readings and the most varience.

I saw one test where the same car on the same day had over 100hp difference on the dynos

[blykins]

Those are actually rear-wheel dynos.

When dealing with engine dynos, you commonly see Stuska, DTS, and Superflow.

[mpanten]

Originally Posted by blykins

Those are actually rear-wheel dynos.

When dealing with engine dynos, you commonly see Stuska, DTS, and Superflow.

yes but im assuming you see the same type of differences in the engine dynos?

[blykins]

I've personally never put an engine on one, then put it right back on another brand to see what the differences are. I use the same guy for almost everything I do (with the exception of the ones that won't physically fit on his dyno) and he runs a Stuska.

He has told me on many occasions that he sees anywhere from 50-100 hp less than what the builder advertised the engine to be.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

The guy I use has a Superflo dyno and when he did my first 331, he put in the engine specs as a 302, first pull to 5000rpms netted me 450hp, boy was I a happy camper!!!!!!!! then we both caught the mistake after looking over the readings well and he corrected things.......
mistakes can happen and I'm guessing someone with enough computer savy can "cook" the reading if they really wanted to........

David

[Cashburn]

Maybe I need to build this engine and find out...

[blykins]

Give her a shot.

I do know that I just did a 427 SBF using a Dart block, AFR 205cc heads, a Super Victor intake, and a Comp street roller that made 564hp @ 6500. The cam had a lot more duration than the ones that they used.

Before you say that the TFS heads possibly flow better than the AFR 205's, the last set of TW-R heads that I had on a flow bench were down about 25 cfm from their advertised flow numbers.

A 50 hp difference is a chunk, especially when someone is running a nice solid roller and the other guy is running an antiquated Trick Flow/Crane hydraulic roller design.

As mentioned earlier, I'd love to try one of my engines on their dyno....or try one of theirs on the one that I use.

[madmaxx]

I think trickflow uses comp to fabricate their cams now, however the design is trickflow.

[olddog]

A friend runs a 385 based 460 bored over in mud runner. The engine was built and dyno showed near 700 hp. He had problems with the engine, and had a different builder work it over. The second builder told him it had way too much cam for his rev limiter set at 6800. He did more port work, changed the cam, and put it back together.

Ran it on the dyno and it was down 100 hp. He was bummed, but out of money. So he put it in his truck. His first run, he was expecting less performance and was totally caught off guard. Hit the rev limiter instantly and thought it was missing for a couple seconds. He has to shift gears immediately.

By the seat of his pants, he is convinced it up at least 150 hp when the dyno says it is down 100 hp. That's about a 250 hp difference from one shop to the other. To me a dyno (other than a huge manufacture with deep pockets at risk) is only useful as a tool for tuning and measuring changes. The absolute numbers are meaningless.