Lost Oil Pressure - Page 2

Dominik · #21 (**permalink**) 01-23-2012, 09:10 AM

Seems pretty clear now.

My mate took my in a Group C around Hockenheim (short circuit) and even though the wet sump was extensively modified he had to back off like Tom due to "0" oil pressure. And it took "ages" to recover.

We have yet to see a wet sump able to cope with those g-forces... Surely your son was too preoccupied to race rather than watching the oil pressure gage. (you can't blame him for that)

Rick Parker · #22 (**permalink**) 01-23-2012, 09:29 AM

The gauges were the last thing he was looking at. It will be a fairly expensive lesson, but they always cost "Something".

Caprimaniac · #23 (**permalink**) 01-24-2012, 03:17 AM

Sorry to hear this, Rick.

I will try the Canton pan this year. If I see the same sort of oil pressure fluctation as previous years more serious steps have to be taken.

But I fear that Tom is right; for high G- forces the accusump (or dry sump) is the way to go...

When you say the Canton design iznogood, Tom, are you reffering to the same design as this sump? Looking to buy an Oil Pan

Tom Wells · #24 (**permalink**) 01-24-2012, 06:02 AM

Caprimaniac,

Quote:

* Diamond Shape Road Race Baffle Assembly With Four Trap Doors
* Crank Scraper

The above is a quote from the Canton web site. My pan has those features and does not keep oil pressure even on the street! I can swerve from side to side (think NASCAR tire warming maneuver) and watch the oil pressure bounce to zero and back!

I have been told the Aviaid or Armando pans are better, but haven't tried one yet. My guess is that the stock pan is no worse, and may even be better

If you're doing track days, I'd strongly recommend doing something to upgrade the oiling system!

Tom

CHANMADD · #25 (**permalink**) 01-24-2012, 10:32 AM

I used a baffled of the shelf pan.......eventually I made my own with two gallon plus capacity, baffles, self modified pickup utilizing the factory head pickup and screen...no problems since. I do not like the acrapers because the oil is better used on the lifters and cam. The online oil cooler also serves to prevent bubbles making there way to the crank.

DAVID GAGNARD · #26 (**permalink**) 01-24-2012, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

The gauges were the last thing he was looking at. It will be a fairly expensive lesson, but they always cost "Something".

That happens a lot while on track, recommend an oil pressure warning light, have one in my race car as well as street car, both set on 20 psi..the red light will get your attention if it comes on.....one must make themselves at least check the gauges once every lap or two, I do so on the front or back straights....also have warning lights for oil pressure/oil temp/water temp...
Do like the NASCAR boys do with their gauges, orient them where as when on track,your needle for each gauge should be pointing straight up when under way,that way,one quick glance and if all needles are pointing straight up, everyhting is "normal:, if one is too much to one side or the other, you quickly know to give it a second look as something is not right.....

As to pans, I've used the exact same Canton road race pan (8 qt.,baffles/trap doors)(front sump) on my road race 66 couple and street car 65 Fastback......never have seen the oil pressure waiver a bit and I've purposely watched the gauge in hard sweeping turns.....also,had my in-car camera focused on the gauges during a few races to check this out, oil pressure never moved more than 5 psi thru the rpm range..

David

DAVID GAGNARD · #27 (**permalink**) 01-24-2012, 10:55 AM

Gauge panel in the race car, similar on in my street car.......

David

Tom Wells · #28 (**permalink**) 01-24-2012, 02:42 PM

David,

Thanks for the insight:

Quote:

the exact same Canton road race pan

Actually, I think I have a different pan. If you'll note my info, my cars use 385 series engines, not small-blocks, so the pans could be quite different.

I have spoken to Canton at the PRI show more than once about the 385 series pan and they said they had no test data so if it doesn't work, well, it doesn't work...

So maybe it works OK on the small-block but not on the big block? I have heard from other 385 racers who won't use the Canton pans for the same reason; perhaps Canton's other pans are better.

Not sure I'd risk an engine after my experiences. Certainly not a 385.

Tom

DAVID GAGNARD · #29 (**permalink**) 01-24-2012, 02:52 PM

Tom;

Speaking of the Canton oil pan, I was refering that to Rick/his son with the small block in a Mustang.......

I have no idea about their pan for the 385 series enignes.........

Any pan used for performance driving needs to have a bigger capacity and a windage tray and most importantly, baffled area with gates where the pickup goes in the bottom of the pan to keep the oil there.....If the pan does not have this, it would be no better than a factory stock pan......

David

Tom Wells · #30 (**permalink**) 01-25-2012, 06:05 AM

David,

That was my point.

Quote:

bigger capacity and a windage tray and most importantly, baffled area with gates where the pickup goes

The 385 series pan has all the bells and whistles you describe and still doesn't work!

I'd really like to find a good pan for the 385 engines. It may be that the longer stroke (4.3" and 4.5") makes it tougher to accomplish.

Tom

lovehamr · #31 (**permalink**) 01-25-2012, 08:03 AM

I'm using a Canton RR pan with my FE as well as my Boss 302 and even with an extra quart in the FE pan it I can lose OP in a sustained corner, even some freeway ramps. The B302 doesn't have that problem. Of course the B302 can't get the sort of lateral Gs that the Cobra can either.

DAVID GAGNARD · #32 (**permalink**) 01-25-2012, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovehamr

I'm using a Canton RR pan with my FE as well as my Boss 302 and even with an extra quart in the FE pan it I can lose OP in a sustained corner, even some freeway ramps. The B302 doesn't have that problem. Of course the B302 can't get the sort of lateral Gs that the Cobra can either.

Well,now I see the problem right off,you'll's is using them big old lumps of cast iron (FE) for powering your cars!!!!!!!!!!!

Switch to a small block and get rid of all your oiling problems!!!!!!!!!

Serouisly,I have no idea why this would happen to the big blocks, only possible thing I can think of is the depth of the pan, maybe just too shallow?????

David

RACER X #99 · #33 (**permalink**) 01-25-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD

Well,now I see the problem right off,you'll's is using them big old lumps of cast iron (FE) for powering your cars!!!!!!!!!!!

Switch to a small block and get rid of all your oiling problems!!!!!!!!!

Serouisly,I have no idea why this would happen to the big blocks, only possible thing I can think of is the depth of the pan, maybe just too shallow?????

David

Dave I've been away from Cobras for a while. You mean guys are still running those Ford/Edsel engines?

DAVID GAGNARD · #34 (**permalink**) 01-25-2012, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RACER X #99

Dave I've been away from Cobras for a while. You mean guys are still running those Ford/Edsel engines?

I guess some still are,maybe they just don't know any better!!!!!!!!

David

blykins · #35 (**permalink**) 02-06-2012, 08:12 AM

What's the latest Rick? Get the rest of the engine torn down?

Rick Parker · #36 (**permalink**) 04-21-2012, 10:50 AM

Locked up oil pump. Piece of metal in the pump. Unable to identify where it came from or what it was??? The engine had been run pretty hard before he got the car. He replaced the cam, roller lifters, timing chain & gears and the pan. Subsequent tack day went well until a Throttle Position Sensor conked out.