Ford Racing 427 burning oil

[68pony]

Just a update, i have spoken to marty from ford racing seems like they have another motor there with simular issues and has told me to hold on and they will email me some different things to try, i'm not really happy at all about this i have spent alot of money and have a dud and my mechanic has done all he can do and is waiting on instructions from me on what to do next, dam i new i should have bought that roush, i have 2 friends who bought roush engines and have had no issues at all, i wanted to be a little different plus i had a carb and dizzy so thought i would go with the ford racing motor as was cheaper due to not coming complete, i really hope they help me out soon my mechanic does not have alot of room and christmas is coming, not so merry for me this year, i was looking forward to some summer nights cruising with the top down.
cheers chris.

[vector1]

this thread just keeps gettin' weirder and weirder.....

[Keithc8]

How did we miss you on that 427 SB. We are a little more than Ford but quite a bit less than Roush. If the engine is truly complete and dyno tested you can eliminate these problems. I sent quite a few engines over seas and would not do one with out dyno testing and checking all of this.
We all have problems but making sure it is ran before it leaves is the best way. Ford Racing just has there regular engine rebuilding company do these. I have sold them but when not complete you can not be sure.

Good luck, Keith Craft

[Mike Huddart]

I havn't seen any mention of the type of oil that's in this motor, if you are running synthetic in a new motor these are just the sort of problems you are going to get. Just a thought

Mike

[undy]

Originally Posted by Mike Huddart

I havn't seen any mention of the type of oil that's in this motor, if you are running synthetic in a new motor these are just the sort of problems you are going to get. Just a thought

Mike

Tell that to GM and the last 15 years of corvettes that had Mobil 1 from day one...

[Mike Huddart]

Originally Posted by undy

Tell that to GM and the last 15 years of corvettes that had Mobil 1 from day one...

Why pick out Corvettes, ALL OEM stuff runs synthetic from day one but this isn't an OEM motor it's a crate motor with all the problems therein.

Mike

[Barry_R]

Not at all comparable. Factory builds do not use the same honing techniques or machines as we do in the aftermarket. In addition there is a fair chance that they are not started on gasoline for the first spin - CNG, propane or spun up with an electric motor drive to verify oil pressure and such before install.

When I ran Speed-Pro we regularly had well established shops that tried break-in with synthetic and experienced ring sealing troubles that they did not have with normal oil. Back to dino and the problems simply went away - no accident and enough frequency to state that it was not coincidental. Synthetic on first fire is simply a risk taken without any reward. Even if the odds are 90-10 its too easy to eliminate the variable.

Oil burning can come from a lot of places - many of which will never show up in any performance oriented testing - leakdown and compression checks won't show you a thing.

[68pony]

Originally Posted by Keithc8

How did we miss you on that 427 SB. We are a little more than Ford but quite a bit less than Roush. If the engine is truly complete and dyno tested you can eliminate these problems. I sent quite a few engines over seas and would not do one with out dyno testing and checking all of this.
We all have problems but making sure it is ran before it leaves is the best way. Ford Racing just has there regular engine rebuilding company do these. I have sold them but when not complete you can not be sure.

Good luck, Keith Craft

But thats it, i have a piece of paper stating it was run for 20 min before packed and shipped, i would have thought this problem would have been picked up then,this motor started smoking from when we first started it as it got to normal temp, and as i have stated my mechanic pulled the inlet manifold and no evidence of oil getting sucked through the gaskets but the combustion chambers had to much oil in there for his liking, he thinks the rings may have been put in the wrong way but all 8! every plug is oiled up, i tried with pvc and with a breather no difference,i hope they don't take to long for a sollution, i'm not getting a good night sleep ATM.
cheers chris.ps non synthetic oil was used 10-40 as was recomended by ford racing tech line.

[Keithc8]

Agree with Barry here, I always suggest dino oil on break in. We use Jo Gibbs break in oil that is special formulated for new engines and break in.
You should have been able to look at the engine and tell if it had been run. I think they spin them or do a oil pressure check and an air leak check on these engines. If they did not start it and go through a break in process and actually run the engine they would not have found this. I have had a few over the years that have had a ring seat problem and knew it pretty quick. Had to pull a few down and re-hone and install new rings. You can have a problem with anything so this is the reason we run them before we ship them out.
I hope you find something simple that will fix the problem. Do you have a lot of blow by, this is a sign that the rings are not sealed. You could just have an oil ring problem. Like Barry said a leak down or even a compression check is not much help. The easy thing would be if it is the seals. Does it ever get better under any conditions?

Thanks, Keith

[68pony]

Originally Posted by Keithc8

Agree with Barry here, I always suggest dino oil on break in. We use Jo Gibbs break in oil that is special formulated for new engines and break in.
You should have been able to look at the engine and tell if it had been run. I think they spin them or do a oil pressure check and an air leak check on these engines. If they did not start it and go through a break in process and actually run the engine they would not have found this. I have had a few over the years that have had a ring seat problem and knew it pretty quick. Had to pull a few down and re-hone and install new rings. You can have a problem with anything so this is the reason we run them before we ship them out.
I hope you find something simple that will fix the problem. Do you have a lot of blow by, this is a sign that the rings are not sealed. You could just have an oil ring problem. Like Barry said a leak down or even a compression check is not much help. The easy thing would be if it is the seals. Does it ever get better under any conditions?

Thanks, Keith

Cold start no smoke as the motor gets hot(normal temp)it starts to smoke out the tail pipes at idle, my mates said when i took off from a set of lights the smoke would go away and return after stopped at a set of lights again,there is no blow by, does this info help, by the way i appreciate the help guys.
cheers chris.ps my mechanic could not tell if the engine was run looked very clean but there is a document stating it was run for 20 min and again non synthetic oil was used a 10-40 as recomended by ford racing tech line.

[Keithc8]

This sounds like it might be the valve seals. If it does not smoke when the vacuum is low which is the higher rpms but more when it is idling and has more vacuum it sounds like it may be coming by the guides. If you kill after driving and then re-start and it puffs pretty good it is probably the seals. This would be one of the easier fixes if this is the problem.

Good luck, Keith Craft

[Luce]

I have the same motor and I plan to start it for the first time in a few days. It came with the same card saying it was run for 20 minutes, and what temp it got up to and I think oil pressure or some other tidbit. And the plugs have a touch of color, and a little but of residue in the exhaust port, so it was running on some hydrocarbon. Also, there was a little rust in the bottom of the water pump where it couldn't fully drain.

I guess they have a o ringed intake they can quickly strap on, and a oil pump drive gear or maybe a full dizzy they slap in. The balancer also had paint mark on it for timing.

[SwiftDB4]

This may not be relevant, but have you checked ignition? My Roush 427SR with MSD had oily plugs and ran really rich when new. Traced down the MSD distributor cap center electrode had broken off! Since then I've replaced the cap for a second time with the same problem. Fuel washdown probably caused some permanent damage, but the engine was off warranty by the time I found out the problem. Oil consumption is now 1200-1500 miles/ qt., compression is 170psi+, and the plugs are dry so I'm living with it.

[68pony]

Okay guys need some experts oppinions, i have been told by someone that has fitted these 427 to a few cars and has had simular problems,he is in the USA , he said that due to the poor design of the head the drain hole on top of the head is to small and to high and that these engines are fitted with high volume oil pumps and are pumping to much oil to the top of the motor and the drain hole can't cope with the volume and is flooding and this is where the oil is seeping through, he has solved the problem by fitting a standard oil pump but a proper fix would be to remove the head and modify the drain hole, does this make any sence,it would be a easy fix as my mustang has a removable cross member and all i would need to do is remove the rack and drop the sump from under the car so what do you guys think, i aint no expert we can eliminate the intake i went to my mechanics work shop the intake is clean as no oil at all anyware on the intake which would also indicate there is no blow by the intake looks like it has just come out of the box, also the intake ports on the heads are clean as no oil at all and very clean, there is a pool of oil on all the inlet valves not sure of exhaust we did not take the headers off but if my exhaust tips are covered in oil its a safe bet they have oil on them, so my mechanic reckons they have fitted the rings up side down and is sucking the oil up through the cylinders man i'm shattered, ive sent ford racing another email with our latest findings now another nights wait to see what they say.

[mreid]

The Z heads have been used on 1000's of engines. I have them on the 347 stroker in my 66 Mustang with no problem. I also have the 427w that you have in my cobra, but have not run it enough to know if I have a similar problem. My carb is running so rich right now, that I'm not going anywhere for awhile. From what you describe, I doubt the rings are upside down. It does sound more like a head issue, potentially valve seals, but if so much oil is being pumped into the heads with small drain back holes, I guess that could be the problem also.

[blykins]

My bet is on the seals....

[madmaxx]

This is a well known issue with MSD. Bend the rotor tab up so it makes constant contact with the button. You are arcing now. Once you bend up the cap will last 4ever.

Originally Posted by SwiftDB4

This may not be relevant, but have you checked ignition? My Roush 427SR with MSD had oily plugs and ran really rich when new. Traced down the MSD distributor cap center electrode had broken off! Since then I've replaced the cap for a second time with the same problem. Fuel washdown probably caused some permanent damage, but the engine was off warranty by the time I found out the problem. Oil consumption is now 1200-1500 miles/ qt., compression is 170psi+, and the plugs are dry so I'm living with it.

[68pony]

Originally Posted by blykins

My bet is on the seals....

And looks like you may have won the bet, ford racing now want to know what colour the seals are and what the serial number of the motor is, the seals are orange and my mechanic had a fellow technician in his workshop who apperantly has allready changed seals in a few of these 427's his comments were NOT THOSE BLOODY ORANGE VALVE STEM SEALS AGAIN. ford racing deny there was a faulty batch but thats a load of balony my mechanics mate said there was a bad batch, so great i can get some sleep now and where on to it, thanks for all the help guys.
regards chris.

[madmaxx]

I am curious will it make you feel better when someone says "All builders have parts issues at one time or another"? I doubt it but wanted to get a jump on it.

[mreid]

Now going out to the garage to check the color of my seals...