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04-29-2012, 01:27 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 3,077
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Not Ranked
Keep cobra for street driving and Miata or shifter car for track work, others are much safer at speed to boot. As far as your engine call blykins or kc, see what they can do for you, in the long run may be a lot cheaper. I have no doubt you can assemble, but when comes tp balancing and matching components, they know what works with piece of mind, easier to save money elsewhere
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04-29-2012, 05:50 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: California,
Ca
Cobra Make, Engine: NAF 289 Slabside Early Comp Car with 289 Webers and all the goodies. Cancelling the efforts of several Priuses
Posts: 6,592
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Not Ranked
Is your pan like this?
__________________
Rick
As you slide down the Banister of Life, may the splinters never be pointing the wrong way 
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04-29-2012, 06:07 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: California,
Ca
Cobra Make, Engine: NAF 289 Slabside Early Comp Car with 289 Webers and all the goodies. Cancelling the efforts of several Priuses
Posts: 6,592
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Not Ranked
Is your pan like this:
__________________
Rick
As you slide down the Banister of Life, may the splinters never be pointing the wrong way
Last edited by Rick Parker; 04-30-2012 at 12:27 PM..
Reason: Double post
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04-29-2012, 10:06 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PVE,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 289 FIA #2027, 65' 289" PS wheels
Posts: 345
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Not Ranked
Rick,
That looks like it...don't think I posted photos...
Mine is the AVIAD original design 60's type Cobra pan...I ordered it from them directly about ~2000.
According to John at AVIAD the pickup box with the four swinging doors is now mounted on the DIAGONAL and NOT fore/aft like the original. He also said that new design does work better.
David G has a Canton roadrace pan with the with the diagonal orientation on the pickup box and say no oil pressure problems in vintage racing for several years at 6 different tracks...
Would think at least one of those tracks has a LONG right hand sweeper like turn 2 at Willowsprings...another long right hand sweeper at Buttonwillow, just after the "Magic Mountain" hillock.
After the engine is sorted out, it looks like I will be springing for the newer pan configuration with the diagonal mounted pickup box.
Pete
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ERA 289 #2027
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04-29-2012, 10:50 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: MARKSVILLE,LA.,,
Posts: 3,235
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Not Ranked
Pete:
if you can post a few pictures of the inside of your pan and I'll post some of mine for comparison.......there's a big difference and I think that is the root of your problem........
David
__________________
DAVID GAGNARD
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04-30-2012, 12:05 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PVE,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 289 FIA #2027, 65' 289" PS wheels
Posts: 345
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Not Ranked
David G and I have been comparing our experience with oil pans. This is my AVIAD Cobra pan. This is the original configuration from the 60's in which the oil-pump 4-swinging door assembly is oriented fore-aft.
   
This pan was sourced new from AVIAD about 2000. The new version has the pick-up box mounted on the DIAGONAL. According to AVIAD and David's experience with his Canton the diagonal setup is more effective at retaining oil-pressure.
Pete
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ERA 289 #2027
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04-30-2012, 05:34 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Augustine,
FL
Cobra Make, Engine: E-M / Power Performance / 521 stroker / Holley HP EFI
Posts: 1,926
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Not Ranked
Pete,
Just to reiterate, my Canton "road race" pan has the diagonal trap doors. It does not work at all. I can do the NASCAR "tire warming" zigzag maneuver on street tires and cause the oil pressure to drop...
I have set the pickup as specified. More than once.
I have met with Canton at the PRI show and quizzed their personnel endlessly. I conclude they have no data to support their claims, and worse, don't have a clue about how to fix the oil pressure loss!
It is a big block, so my experience may be irrelevant to yours.
I have also seen small block cars lose oil pressure at Sebring. Also mod motors etc etc. Dunno what pans they used, but they don't seem immune.
I have the idea that other factors are possibly more important. If I knew what they were, none of us would lose oil pressure LOL
I do conclude the way to go is Accusump at the least, and a dry sump as the ultimate.
Had to be said,
Tom
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Wells's law of engine size: If it matters what gear you're in, the engine's too small!
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04-30-2012, 09:01 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: E BRUNSWICK N.J. USA,
Posts: 3,841
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How about a vacuum pump added to the mix
Hey Guy's Wonder if a vacuum pump would help? The other thing is painting the inside of an engine. I had bad issues with using Gystal paint inside the block. It flakes off over time and clogged my sump and killed a motor. I was told the perparation was not done right. I now just polish the inside of the block to help oil return to the oil pan faster. Dry sump system do pull a small amount of vacuum without a pump. I would guess about 5-8 hg of vacuum would be in the ball park. I know with the FE heads and if I had room there would be external oil returns to the oil pan. I may do this with the next motor. Same applies for helping the oiling system with getting more oil to main cap#4 and rods. Stuff to look into. Rick L. |
04-30-2012, 04:16 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: MARKSVILLE,LA.,,
Posts: 3,235
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Not Ranked
Tom: I have no idea what is causing your problem,BB pans may be different from the SB pans,but at worse, should be very similar......Also, Canton makes the same pan on outward appearance,one is listed as as "Street " pan,it has the same identical dimentions as the one listed as "Road Race Pan", but does not have the baffled trap doors....otherwise they are identical pans....there is nothing in the bottom of the sump, all this pan does is increase overall oil capacity.....
On that note,I've raced my car over 8 seasons at Hallet in Tulsa,The Nashville SuperSpeedway road course in Nashville, VIR in Virginia,Barber MotorSports in Birminham and Grand Bayou here in Louisiana and have not seen any drop in oil pressure other than about 3 to 5 psi on very rare occasions while racing,and not always in the same turn......My normal oil pressure at speed with oil temp from 180 to 250 degrees is 55psi.....I've made it a point to check the oil pressure gauge visiually in some long high speed sweeping turns and have not seen the gauge move, even had my in-car camera focused on the oil pressure gauge to verify this and I also have an oil pressure warning light set to come on at 20 psi and I've never seen it come on as of yet,except on start-up.....I'm also using a Melling High Performance oil pump in standard pressure/standard volume......
I've also run my street car with a 351-W with a Canton Road Race pan at Hallet,Nashville,Barber and Grand Bayou with no loss in oil pressure....
I'll try to post pics of my pan, inside there is worlds of difference bewteen the Canton pan I have and Pete's AVAID pan.....I think Pete's problems are pan related over time....his engine did last 10 years and 16,000 miles though...
David
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DAVID GAGNARD
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04-30-2012, 04:51 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: MARKSVILLE,LA.,,
Posts: 3,235
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Canton Road Race pan pictures.......
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DAVID GAGNARD
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04-30-2012, 04:53 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: MARKSVILLE,LA.,,
Posts: 3,235
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I'll try it again......
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DAVID GAGNARD
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04-30-2012, 04:56 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: MARKSVILLE,LA.,,
Posts: 3,235
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Not Ranked
__________________
DAVID GAGNARD
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04-30-2012, 04:58 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: MARKSVILLE,LA.,,
Posts: 3,235
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Not Ranked
more 
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DAVID GAGNARD
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04-30-2012, 05:13 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: MARKSVILLE,LA.,,
Posts: 3,235
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Not Ranked
click on each pic for a larger better view.....
in the first one, you'll see the "box" in the sump with the trap doors, aligned diagonally with the pan.....the first pictures shows the "brace" from the front corner to the front of the pan, it is half the height of the box,allowing oil to flow from side to side, right/left.......same with the opposing rear corner..
Now in the next set of picutes, the brace from the corner of the pan to the sides of the pan is the same height as the box,basically dividing the pan in 2 sections front to rear,but feeding both side sections...
the pan in the last photos is off a 351-W,but same pan, showing the crank scraper and windage tray.......box/trap doors/braces are identical.....
when the pan is full (8 quarts) oil level is just below the bottom of the windage tray as checked with 8 quarts of water.....
the oil draining from the rear of the engine/shallow part of the pan feeds the rear section,which in turn will feed the box from both sides,oil from the front part of the engine feeds the front section and both side.......since the "brace" is only half the height of the box in the front/rear,oil will equalize from side to side in the front/rear sections.....but since the brace is the full height side to side,it will hold the old better front to rear sections....
Hope this makes sence, now compare to Pete's AVAID pan......lot of difference.....the one thing I don't like about Pete's pan is the "cover" over the 2 side compartments, I don't see how much oil can ever get into the side compartments......front to back is no problem as in accelerating/braking,side to side does bother me,can't see how it would function properly the way it is made and side to side is where he's losing pressure in long sweeping turns......
David
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DAVID GAGNARD
Last edited by DAVID GAGNARD; 04-30-2012 at 05:18 PM..
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