351w will not start. Help please

[Roger Bray]

Hi Guys,
My car will not start and I have run out of ideas and I’m hoping someone here can help me.
First I will list my setup and then describe the symptoms.

Engine. 351W purchased from Ford Motor Sports rated at 362hp
Dual plane intake
GT40 aluminum heads
Timing set at 10degrees at idle

Carb Holley street avenger carb. No changes to factory settings.
Holley Performance Products 770 CFM Four Barrel Carburetor*0-80770

Ignition MSD 6AL with MSD coil.


The car was driven several times this spring. The engine started but ran rough until it warmed up.
Hot restarts were no problem.
My problems started when I noticed that the cap on the Power Brake Booster was cracked.
After I replaced the cap the engine would not start. I removed the cap and it still would not start.
I pulled a spark plug it seemed to me to be fouled.
I thought perhaps fouled plugs could be my problem so I pulled them and put them in my Ultrasonic cleaner.
The next morning I put the plugs back in and the engine fired right up. It ran smooth and didn’t require a warm up period to run at Idle. In fact it idled at 800rpms which is about 200rpms lower that it ran with the cracked power brake port plug.

I shut the engine down and returned and attempted to restart it an hour latter w/o success.
The engine will fire a little bit but will not start.
The fuel log at the carb is reading 7lbs.
I pulled to confirm that I was getting spark.
I let the car sit for several days before trying again.
Before attempting to start I gave the battery a full charge with my trickle charger.
The engine will still not start and I don’t know where to go from here.
I can’t think of anything that I changed except the cap on the power brake booster port.

If anyone can offer help I would be grateful,
Roger

[mreid]

Sounds like you were running with a vacuum leak, so once it does get started you will need to adjust the carb. Also 10 degrees sounds a little light for that engine. I would run base at 12 to 14, but to the problem at hand. If it catches sometimes, but doesn't fire, it is probably fuel related, but don't totally rule out spark, just yet.

1. Make sure you have fuel in the bowls. Remove the air cleaner and work the throttle to make sure the acc squirters are providing a good shot. That's good fuel, not old. How old is your fuel as stale fuel can cause this problem.

2. Do you have an electric fuel pump? If so, turn it on without starting the car and look down the carb to make sure fuel is not dripping into the intake. This can be from too high fuel pressure (7 is on the edge for your carb, I'd rather see 6 to 6.5) or dirt under the needle seat. This would also explain your fouled plugs.

3. Check the plugs again and see if they are wet and fouled.

Let's start there.

[jhv48]

Out of gas? Float bowls full?

Can you smell gas when the car won't start?

[Dangerous Doug]

All of that, and check your battery voltage. If it's been sitting for a while and you only ran it a short time it may not have a full charge. No full charge, no start.

This happened to me several years ago with a brand new battery (eventually determined it had a bad cell). I run an MSD distributor with no control box. I jumped it and it immediately fired up.

DD

[Roger Bray]

Hi guys,
Thanks for the replies.
The gas is old. It was put in last fall.
I double checked the fuel pressure and it is reading 6,25 not 7
Getting a good shot of fuel when I work the throttle.
Plugs are not wet or fouled.

When checking the plugs I noticed that a connection had come off my MSD.
I reconnect and the engine fired up.
I shut down the engine and am not able to get it started.

Roger

[Roger Bray]

Just an update.
Yesterday I put my charger on the battery an it indicated almost 0 charge.
I gave it a full charge.

Just now I put the charger back on and it's indicating almost 0 charge again.
The batter is an Optima that I bought about 8yrs ago.

Maybe my problem is a combination of the wire on the MSD and a battery that will not hold a charge.

[rooster]

I had an MSD Blaster SS coil go bad and my cobra was VERY hard to start. Replaced it with a Pertronix and it is like a different car. Starts right up cold or hot and runs GREAT!
Could be your problem. Russ

[mreid]

Replace that battery.

[Roger Bray]

Well,
I finally got it started.
The trickle charger indicated a 100% charge,however the volt meter only indicated 11 volts which I guess is enough to turn the starter but not activate the MSD.

I try started a again and after a few seconds it started.
The volt meter on the dash went to 13 3/4 volts.

I guess the battery is the problem.
It's an easy fix and I learned a few things working this problem.

Thanks everyone!

Roger

[Dangerous Doug]

Fantastic! You might want to have the battery checked to see if it has a bad cell. After my initial start problem I was able to use the battery for a while---but then it failed. (I was picking up Indian food for dinner. There was a slight slope to the parking lot and two girls in heels helped me push-start it. Don't let this happen to you. I was mortified.)

Jokes aside. I'd recommend getting the battery tested.

Congrats!
DD

[Roger Bray]

Hi Guys,
Sorry to be so needy, but I've been having trouble again.
The car would not start this morning. The battery voltage was 12.5.
Just for good measure I put the battery charger on and tried later without success.

The smell of gas is pretty strong, so I suspect that I have a flooding problem.

I made a few checks:

Fuel pressure at log is 6 psi
Fuel levels in the bowls are at the bottom of the treads.
No visible sign of fuel leaking into carb with fuel pump running.
I pulled a plug and it was clean and dry.

However .... the throttle plates are wet.

I called Hooters and had two young women in heels try to push start the car, but that didn't work either

[olddog]

Somewhere I got the impression you have mostly driven fuel injection cars and little experience with a carb. If I'm wrong, sorry to be insulting. I'm suspecting you may think all you have to do is turn the key.

If the plugs are dry, I doubt it is flooded, although your smelling fuel puzzles me.

When cold you should press it to the floor once, and let off peddle before cranking. That does two things. It sets the choke and high speed idle cam. It also squirts some extra fuel into the dry manifold. If it doesn't start repeat. If you find it always takes two tries then pump it to the floor twice before cranking.

You can also slowly pump the accelerator while cranking.

If it does get flooded, then you hold it to the floor while cranking and do not let up on the peddle until it starts.

If it has no choke (race carbs typically do not) then you definitely need to pump quite a bit of fuel to start it.

If you already know all this, then ignore me.

[Dangerous Doug]

olddog: I learned something: I thought I was just pumping some fuel into the system with that single press of the pedal. Didn't even realize I was setting the choke and the fast idle. Thanks! DD

RB: Did you at least get a sympathy hug from the Hooter's girls?

[Roger Bray]

Well some more strange things have been happening.
On Saturday the engine would not start.Just for the heck of it I wondered if my timing could be off, so I rotated the distributor clockwise just a touch to advance the timing.
The engine fired up. I took the car for a 20 mile ride. It ran better than it ever has before.
Idled great had lots of power ran smooth.
However, today the car would not start.
Battery voltage is fine. Tried timing in at old setting and still no success.
Other things I have tried include:
Cleaning place where the MSD box grounds to the frame.
Pulled the dist cap and cleaned the contact points.

If anyone has any ideas please let me know.
This is driving me nuts,
Roger

[Clois Harlan]

get a clean paper towel and wipe the inside of your distributor cap. To me it sounds like you have condensation inside your distributor cap. Just turn the two screws 90 degrees and lift the cap up and see if there are any signs of condensation or corrosion. If you need a new cap go to the nearest NAPA and get you a factory replacement (mid 70's GM I think). About $12 compared to $30 for MSD.

Also, make sure you have a good ground from your block to your frame.

[jhv48]

Before you start it cold in the morning, check the primary float bowl to make sure there is fuel available. Then, while standing over the carburetor with the engine and air cleaner off, move the throttle by hand and watch to see that fuel immediately squirts out of the two squirters.

If so, then you have an electrical problem for sure.

[Dirty Harry]

You might try using a test light to confirm that 12v is being sent to the switch side of the coil consistently when the ignition switch is in the "start" position and in the "run" position. A faulty ignition switch could make you chase your tail like this if it is supplying 12v to the coil only intermittently.

[Roger Bray]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the good info. A friend is coming over in the morning and we will see what we can find

[Roger Bray]

Well we tried to start the car and the same problems happened.
It would not start until we advanced the timing.
After it started we put a timing light on it and set the timing at 34 degrees at 3k as advised by tech support at Ford Motorsports. The engine ran great at that setting. However, when we shut it off we could not get it restarted until we advanced the timing again
I check the distributor cap and it was dry as a bone.

Could this be some type of carburetor problem?

[maxum_101]

u have a msd dist?
there was a problem with someone and there dist, it was out of phase or something like that.