Engine rebuild - advice wanted

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD

Forget the warranty,it goes out the window the first time you put the car on a track!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As is with most engine builders.............

David

I thought that was the case, but went through the warranty and I'm not sure it's voided for HPDE events vs racing (which does void it). Anyone have the answer to this?

Here's a link to their warranty info: http://www.fordracingparts.com/annou...ent_2012v2.pdf

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

I thought that was the case, but went through the warranty and I'm not sure it's voided for HPDE events vs racing (which does void it). Anyone have the answer to this?

Here's a link to their warranty info: http://www.fordracingparts.com/annou...ent_2012v2.pdf

I went thru the warranty list and could find any number of reasons they could/would void your warranty for track use........
lets say it burns up on the track, all they have to say was it was an oil starvation problem and you had the wrong oil pan on it for it's intended use....how are you going to prove you had good oil pressure things went south?????
There are a hundred things they could/would come up with to void the warranty......
BTW: I have one of those expensive BOSS 302 blocks, serial number under 1000.....guess what, the rear main seal area was machined wrong,it's .050 out of wack, it doesn't leak oil out the back, it pours oil out the back.....
Had to tear down the engine to the bare block,crate it up, send it to Michigan for them to inspect it and tell me there was nothing wrong with it and that it shouldn't leak a drop.........well, it leaks like crazy and had it checked by 2 different machine shops and they both came up with the same thing, bad machining where the one-piece rear main seal goes,not centered in the block.....
So now I own a nice pretty $1,700.00+ paperweight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANK YOU FORD RACING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW: when I called the tech people about this, first question was is it the big bore block (4.125) or the standard bore block (4.00)????
tech let it slip they were having major problems with the first big bore blocks and were taking them back with no questions asked....I hope they have that problem fixed by now.........

David

[dcdoug]

As we've looked at this rebuild, our thinking has evolved somewhat and I thought I'd get your thoughts (see first post for details on car, existing engine)

-After reading up on crate motors, reliability issues and warranty claims for track motors, I think we will avoid that route.

-We REALLY want this to be as problem free as possible so we can drive it rather than fix it (more fixing than driving over the last year)

-Thinking about a Dart block based bottom end with all quality forged internals
-Still would like to reuse our heads if possible
-Upgrade intakes and cam
-Probably stay with EFI if we can reuse most of our existing system. How much of the existing EFT would need to be replaced?
-Are we making too much of staying with a 302 based 347 vs. going to a 351 based block? How many accessories will need to change? Would it be cheaper in the long run to make ~500hp with a 351w motor even after changing out items like headers?

Other things we should be considering?

[blykins]

I think you're making it more complicated than what it should be....

I'd jerk the old engine out first thing and pull the pan. Then go from there.

[JBCOBRA]

Just drop it off here:
This guy is very good...and he is a Ford guy. They do a bunch of the local racers..Circle, Road and Drag Racing.

Doug Meyers @ Automotive Machining Services
269 MEYERS RD
SCHWENKSVILLE, PA 19473
Phone: (610) 287-7444

[Barry_R]

Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD

...and had it checked by 2 different machine shops and they both came up with the same thing, bad machining where the one-piece rear main seal goes,not centered in the block.....
So now I own a nice pretty $1,700.00+ paperweight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We can fix that...

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by Barry_R

We can fix that...

I'll be contacting you about it.........so far shipping this hunk of iron around the country is killing me.........

David

[vector1]

For Sale: 355 ford engine ( 302 ) - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

[PANAVIA]

I have been very happy with my BOSS 302 block from 2008, serial number under 200-

14000 hard miles in my cobra, and with proper setup they can be a gem.

Give it a try and build up your other motor as a backup!

[dcdoug]

The engine is out, here are some pics:

TrakRat Engine Pull Slideshow by jhe12345 | Photobucket

This engine had a custom balance to it and it's very possible that when the original dampner broke last year and we tried to have a machine shop drill the new dampner to match the balance, it wasn't quite right (although we didn't feel any vibration). The slightly out-of-balance damper caused the crank failure, which wiped the mains. Hard to say the order of events.

Maybe someone can explain why any engine builder ever uses non-standard balancing?

[blykins]

This engine builder doesn't. It's either internally balanced or it's externally balanced....28 or 50 oz.

Looks like a typical Eagle crank failure....break off at the first journal.

[American]

Ford small blocks, like others, will typically encounter more torsional loads on the first journal area of the crank. I spent many years in the engine business and usually, but not every time, I looked at an engine with a busted crank it was in the same area, typically a stock crank in a higher HP application.

It's one thing when you spin a main bearing and burn it to a crisp or toss a rod and put things in a bind enough to snap a crank, it's a another to snap a crank under 'normal' driving conditions (unless it was a 301 Pontiac). I'd say it was a bad forging... or if it was living up to Eagle's seemingly earned reputation, a typical forging from Eagle. Maybe the little Chinese boys were just having a bad day...

Regardless, expect some twist in the 1 and 5 rods, you will need to align bore/hone the mains and depending on how hard it was tweaked I'd take a very close and skeptical look/magnaflux at the 1 and 2 main caps.

Tis the reason why I won't consider much besides Scat or Callies for crankshafts.

[vector1]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

The engine is out, here are some pics:

TrakRat Engine Pull Slideshow by jhe12345 | Photobucket

This engine had a custom balance to it and it's very possible that when the original dampner broke last year and we tried to have a machine shop drill the new dampner to match the balance, it wasn't quite right (although we didn't feel any vibration). The slightly out-of-balance damper caused the crank failure, which wiped the mains. Hard to say the order of events.

Maybe someone can explain why any engine builder ever uses non-standard balancing?

Or there wasn't quite right the press fit of the damper on the crank snout when reinstalled and loose it came.....

[olddog]

The bearing wear looked to get progressively worse, but I wasn't sure where they came from. If there was an oiling issue the wear should get progressively worse the further you get from the oil pump. Since the oil pump and damper are both at the same end of the engine, this may tell us something. If the bearing wear is the worst nearest the pump, then it would point to a balance issue with the damper. Otherwise the bearing wear was likely an oil issue.

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by olddog

The bearing wear looked to get progressively worse, but I wasn't sure where they came from. If there was an oiling issue the wear should get progressively worse the further you get from the oil pump. Since the oil pump and damper are both at the same end of the engine, this may tell us something. If the bearing wear is the worst nearest the pump, then it would point to a balance issue with the damper. Otherwise the bearing wear was likely an oil issue.

I think you nailed it olddog.