Which oil for a FOrd Crate 351 / 385HP

[RET_COP]

10w-40 is a good place to start Dan. What oils are available in Europe with a good High Performance package such as what we all are talking about?

[dan512]

Originally Posted by RET_COP

10w-40 is a good place to start Dan. What oils are available in Europe with a good High Performance package such as what we all are talking about?

Spoke to a friend who is a mechanic and repair Porsches for a living.

He recommended Castrol TWS 10W-60. Zddp content 1000ppm.

I'll give it a try and add some Lucasoil break-in additive, with around 2 oz. that should give me a zinc level of around 1400-1500.

I was out for 2 hours this afternoon, oil went up to 80-85C and stayed there pressure was at 50-55psi at 4000rpm. Let's see what the new oil will do.

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by dan512

I read you Bob, makes sense too, but then why does Ford recommend 20W50 an why do so many engine builders recommend heavier stuff also?

Not an easy topic I'm tackling here

You're right, this is not an easy subject to get a hold of. I think because oil makers are so unwilling to give out much information regarding their products.

Ford does not always recommend a 20W-50 oil. You have to read the spec sheet that comes wiith the engine. Even for the 530hp crate engines, Ford recommends a 10W-40 oil. I glanced through a few of the Windsor motor tech sheets, and none that I looked recommended a 20W-50 oil. They all recommend a 10W-30 or 10W-40 oil.

I live in CO, it's not uncommon for my engine to see starting temps in the 20's. So I use 5W-30.

Originally Posted by dan512

Spoke to a friend who is a mechanic and repair Porsches for a living.

He recommended Castrol TWS 10W-60. Zddp content 1000ppm.

That's great - if you're working on a Porsche. Some Porsche's are air cooled, and have loose bearing tolerances. They need a higher viscosity. Just like an old VW or a Harley TC. You need to ask some one who works on SBF's.

Just like anything else, you have to choose the right tool for the job.

The other thing to keep in mind here is that very few of use put >10K miles a year on these cars. It's usually more like 2-3K a year. And we generally do not drive them in the winter, when it's around 0*. The cold viscosity of the oil probably really won't matter that much.

OTOH, the hot viscosity matters a lot. Follow the science, and choose wisely.

[madmaxx]

You are so far out in left field with 10W60 wtf!!!!! go with 10W40 or straight 40W. it really isn't that hard. Your mechanic is idiot, most are, as there is no money in it. In other words its a lot easier to make money on other fields. Sooooooo is your Porsche air cooled?

[dan512]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

You are so far out in left field with 10W60 wtf!!!!! go with 10W40 or straight 40W. it really isn't that hard. Your mechanic is idiot, most are, as there is no money in it. In other words its a lot easier to make money on other fields. Sooooooo is your Porsche air cooled?

Take it easy on me madmaxx, I'm still learnig.

No Porsche for me but my M3 E90 uses the same oil, V8 engine, 8300 redline. So if I get this right, the higher visosity is needed because that engine revs higher?

He's is also not my mechanic and makes no money on me btw.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by GregAgrest

Dan

I just had a 351/408 stroker built by Keith Craft. They recommend Joe Gibbs Driven HR 10-30W As a matter of fact they require I use it to maintain their warranty

Same here on my KC FE - however, when I commented about the 15 psi at hot idle they said I could switch to the Joe Gibbs HR 20W-50 to increase it. At first I was planning to but after some further thinking I may stay with the 10W-30 and watch my idle pressure. I wish Joe Gibbs made a 10W-40 HR oil.

Most of our cars are kept in garages and don't see sub-freezing temperatures (some of you Northerners may be an exception). My garage doesn't typically see anything below about 55 deg in the winter. So, I'm not sure the concern about using a 0 or 5 winter weight oil in these cars is as great as for a daily driver that may be parked outside overnight.

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by dan512

Take it easy on me madmaxx, I'm still learnig.

So if I get this right, the higher visosity is needed because that engine revs higher?

Not exactly. In theory, the crank shaft spins on a film of oil and doesn't touch the bearings. Not exactly true, I know, but that's the general idea.

When the engine is built, the bearing clearances are set either "loose" or "tight". A lot of race engines are built loose, supposedly making a little extra power while sacrificing bearing wear.

If the bearings are you loose, you generally use a higher viscosity, to make that film of oil thicker to hold the crank in suspension.

Another theory I read is that a 40 oil will stabilize a hydraulic roller valve train a little better at high rpm's than a 30 will. Interesting theory, but I haven't seen any real proof of that.

Generally speaking, you need a thick enough oil to maintain proper oil pressure in all situations. If the oil is too thick, pressures will be too high, and the bypass port will be open all the time. But the pump and drive mechanism will be placed under additional strain the just isn't needed. That's when you hear about shearing the pin on the distributor shaft.

[RET_COP]

What Bob Cowan said [good post], and what i was saying earlier in the thread. Thinnest oil to maintain the pressure. and there is a prominent engine builder in the West who said that 40W will stabilize the hydraulics lifter at high rpms.
better then 30w. My guess is that tolerances can vary on the hydraulic plunger in the lifter. (like bearing clearances, arrrrghh)
Lake Speed from [Gibbs Driven] and I had a discussion about oil viscosity. I was looking for 10-40 in Hot Rod oil and they don't make it. He said as long as its from the same stock, I could mix the 10w-30 and 15w-50 Hot Rod oil and in effect end up with 12.5w-40. Interesting huh. Told you it can get complicated.
I don't know anything about Porches but alot of guys use 40 to 50w oil for some reason.
The discussion is about our style engines, and that's where my information and experience comes from, 60w is alot of viscosity, and if that is what is needed to maintain oil pressure at an idle or revs then I say it's built loose, or it's leaking from a restrictor.

[Ant]

I think there is too much accent on this forum towards thin oil, I ran 500,000k in a 1300cc Mazda with Castrol 15w 40 (no engine primer) and have since sold it and its still going.

If you are living in below zero conditions which we do in winter, with Ford 351 I would consider a 10w 40 semi synthetic and throw some ZDDP in if flat tappet camshaft, or run a race designed oil like Joe Gibbs XP7 10w-40 and change it out before 3000miles, don't do short run driving. Joe Gibbs oil would definitely be available in the UK, as it is here in NZ.

With cars that may not be used for weeks/months at a time I wouldn't use a full synthetic, unless needed for racing and started regularly. Some car museums don't store cars for longer periods with full synthetic oil, as apparently it runs off parts like pistons, camshafts and you end up with a dry start.

I will be running an oil like J Gibbs semi synthetic 20w50 and turning on oil tank heaters prior to start up, my engine builder recommended this as my engine is more of a race engine with larger clearances, and this oil would stand up better in a hot race situation that the engine was designed for.

[madmaxx]

Brad pen 15w40 and you are protected every which way.

[dan512]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

Brad pen 15w40 and you are protected every which way.

This one? 946ML H/P P.SYNTH. SAE 15W-40 - TurboXL division de DD Distribution

[madmaxx]

Yes,yes!!!!!!!

[blykins]

Originally Posted by bobcowan

When the engine is built, the bearing clearances are set either "loose" or "tight". A lot of race engines are built loose, supposedly making a little extra power while sacrificing bearing wear.

It's not a power thing....

Drag race engine are built "loose" because of the engine temperatures when the cars are staged and launched.

Road race engines do not run "loose" clearances. In fact, you will find a lot of Cup engines with 1.880" rod journals, small wrist pins, 302 mains, etc., run bearing clearances at or under .002".

It's a function of journal diameter and application.

[RET_COP]

Agree!!!

[dan512]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

Yes,yes!!!!!!!

OK, found to company over there that deal with the stuff. Sent them both a mail as they don't have an online-shop.

So let's see.

Dan