Alloycars Aluminum Bodied FORUM Project

[Alloycars]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Does Tony work for Factory Five Racing?

Again just asking for clarification.


Bill S.

Do your home work and figure it out. What has this to do with this project???

[Alloycars]

Ok, you can be right for business plan and etc. etc. ....and thank you guys for your advises...but can we go the project first. I think I am able to deal with financial issues. How I could make an business plan for my Spyders for example.
Its about stomach, new ideas a lot of work and the will to finish what you started. They are selling pretty good.
Again, thank you but lets be concentrated to get basic information so I can go over to check whats possible or not.

[Paul F]

alloycars "Do your home work and figure it out. What has this to do with this project???"

Sigh. Just when I think we are going to have a civil thread, you go and do that. What is with you and answering questions? It was simple question with nothing in the way of an insult or other implied derogatory meaning and you have to go and answer a question with a belligerent answer. It's hopeless.

[Alloycars]

Originally Posted by kevins2

Hi Bill,

The answer is likely yes, if this is the same Tony he's talking about.

https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-ne...ome-additions/

By the way, this thread is mistakenly in the "small block talk" forum...

He is a fantanstic guy, very helpful and open for new ideas.

[Al G]

Originally Posted by Alloycars

Do your home work and figure it out. What has this to do with this project???

You're the one who brought Tony into this conversation.

[Alloycars]

Originally Posted by Paul F

Sigh. Just when I think we are going to have a civil thread, you go and do that. What is with you and answering questions? It was simple question with nothing in the way of an insult or other implied derogatory meaning and you have to go and answer a question with a belligerent answer. It's hopeless. You must have a massive chip on you shoulders.

Sorry, this was not intent to be mistaken for a negative answer.
I really appreciate the advices....Man..you guys are like wolfes...calm down please....can you please read something in a positive way...is this possible or do I ask too much???

[Alloycars]

Originally Posted by Three Peaks

After seeing the Factory Five offerings, which I think are an excellent kit and well built, there are many differences between them and an original style body. I am building (almost finished) an Exact Carbon Cobra built on Roger's original spec'd frame and the differences are huge. Since this is splashed off an original body, it isn't symmetrical so copying an original will be an exercise in futility, IMHO.
Better to simply copy the Factory Five body completely or do like the Kirkhams and do a scan and clean it up side to side and make the body symmetrical- then try to figure out how to fit it to the Factory Five chassis.
If you go original with the body (albeit making it symmetrical ala Kirkham), you would need to make modifications to the Factory Five frame to make it fit. some of these modifications may end being pretty substantial, some are more minor.
For instance, the outriggers would need to changed and/or shortened and the mounting points relocated to accomodate the wrap around at the rocker that the originals had and the Factory Five doesn't. The Mark IV does have some wrap around at the rocker- more than the early models, but not to the extent the originals had.

The birdcage is already in place in the Factory Five chassis, but will it fit your original style body? Probably not, unless it closely matches the Factory Five body to begin with. Otherwise, more time and money would need to be spent altering the birdcage. For a kit builder, these two items would be a huge undertaking, not to mention expensive since most would have to take it to a welder to have the modifications done. These are not easy modifications to do, as I have done the bird cage and most of the smaller tubing modifications/additions on my chassis.

In my opinion, if you want to go forward with this idea, you need to basically copy the body of the car you intend to replace the body with. If you wish to go with FFR as your first foray, your best bet would be to buy an FFR base kit Mark IV, bring it to your shop, and do some homework to see what is the best way to proceed. You may scrap the idea, you may produce a matching body, or you may decide to offer a kit with the necessary parts to adapt your body. If you are planning on offering a complete car, you may need to familiarize yourself with US laws and regulations regarding selling complete cars. There is a reason the Kirkhams, ERA's, Shelbys, and other kits are sold as rollers as there are extensive rules and regulations in place that would make selling a complete turn key car cost prohibitive.
On top of everything else, I think at your price point of $85K turn key, I think you are painting yourself into a very small niche corner where you won't make enough money to be able to sustain your business model for very long.

Bob

Hi Bob, a long post and full with information. 85k is very fine for us for a standard version, dont worry.
I dont want to be a competitor with Kirkham at all. We will have different products and I like a lot what they are doing...it is just amazing.
They are going a totally different way. I have no any intention to be a competitor...and there is no reason. I am going for a different market.

[Alloycars]

Ok, we lost the track again. So let go back to what matters.
I went back to my shop and there is indeed a very simple solution to attach the sub frame to hold the aluminum body without a welding process involved.
As this was my main concern we can go forward.

So this is what we got and what we have so far. There are still things open:

- Kit will have an aluminum body. ok
- Basis will be an FFR MKIV. ok
- Subframe bolt on attachment. ok
- Hood inner frame . ???
- Door inner frame. ???
- Trunk inner frame ???
- Using MKIV shape or super original shape ???
- No polished version available as we are going for fast production ..ok Maybe showcar.
- other known MKIV issues.

Just lets go to those items for now.

[Alloycars]

By the way, sorry that I am writing in bold letters. Just got the information that this can be understood as shouting someone....wasnt my intention.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by Alloycars

[b]Ok, we lost the track again. So let go back to what matters.
I went back to my shop and there is indeed a very simple solution to attach the sub frame to hold the aluminum body without a welding process involved.
As this was my main concern we can go forward.

So this is what we got and what we have so far. There are still things open:

- Kit will have an aluminum body. ok
- Basis will be an FFR MKIV. ok
- Subframe bolt on attachment. ok
- Hood inner frame . ???
- Door inner frame. ???
- Trunk inner frame ???
- Using MKIV shape or super original shape ???
- No polished version available as we are going for fast production ..ok Maybe showcar.
- other known MKIV issues.

Just lets go to those items for now.

Here is a profile sketch of the FFR (in red) over a "correct" shelby cobra in black (from the FFR forum). Gives general differences but might be a good starting point for discussion.

[AL427SBF]

... and an FFR against several -

[Alloycars]

Yes, indeed. This is extreme helpfull. So this means that FFR made modifications to an body which was suposently an original one?
Are you sure that the red one is not the MKIII body as they lowered this rear section a lot at the MKIV? On the MKIII you can see the gas tank very obviously.

[Alloycars]

do you know something between the wheelbase of those two cars? Are they identical?

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Alloycars

Sorry, this was not intent to be mistaken for a negative answer.
I really appreciate the advices....Man..you guys are like wolfes...calm down please....can you please read something in a positive way...is this possible or do I ask too much???

So I'll ask again, who is this Tony (can't be that Tony mentioned above at FFR as he has nothing to do with the sales side of life for your association with FFR) you spoke about? And yes, it does matter in the sense that we are all being open and honest here at the moment, or do you expect that to only go in one direction, thus putting this thread in jeopardy of spiraling southwards and coming to a direct halt of interesting ideas for your company?


Bill S.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by Alloycars

Yes, indeed. This is extreme helpfull. So this means that FFR made modifications to an body which was suposently an original one?
Are you sure that the red one is not the MKIII body as they lowered this rear section a lot at the MKIV? On the MKIII you can see the gas tank very obviously.

The red may be a MKIII, unfortunately not a lot of description given. Here is the link to that FFR thread, the "artist" (Greg) owns a MKIII so I'm inclined to believe it is.
Need Cobra Silhouette - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
.

[Alloycars]

Bob, we are offering complete cars as we are working with a third party contractor who is installing brake, engine and suspension parts. We have a Roller version as well, but the definition "Roller" is wide spreaded between each manufacturer. You have to be very carefully when you start comparing those kits.

[Alloycars]

MRMUSTANG.....you again...starting again.
Who the heck was telling that?: "who is this Tony (can't be that Tony mentioned above at FFR as he has nothing to do with the sales side of life for your association with FFR)"

Tony is a super nice guy, who works for FFR and is my direct contact. Other member answered this question also to you...so whats your problem???

Please go away with your problem as I promised not getting angry here. As I mentioned ...you are not welcome in this project

[Al G]

Originally Posted by Alloycars

Bob, we are offering complete cars as we are working with a third party contractor who is installing brake, engine and suspension parts. We have a Roller version as well, but the definition "Roller" is wide spreaded between each manufacturer. You have to be very carefully when you start comparing those kits.

Since you are advertising on eBay are you ready to take orders and deliver within the timeframe stated in the advertisement? MKIII or MKIV? Both of these threads have many contradictions.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by Alloycars

do you know something between the wheelbase of those two cars? Are they identical?

Don't know the wheelbase, I would think the same @ 90" but that would be a guess.
.

[Alloycars]

MKIII is our Prototype and we learned from it. With the next MKIV coming in we can install our aluminum bodies on it. But....only MKIII type bodies.
Later I can catch two flies with one hit....having the right body for the MKIV basis kit and having a conversion kit. So for us it isnt really important selling cars, rollers or conversion kits. They all will be the same.
At this moment I have just to wait until more kits are going to arrive to go ahead.
As a coachbuilder you will never end doing modifications and enhancements...no one kit will be the same.