Best way to proceed with improving up 427 Windsor street setup

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by Ace23

Let me be the first to say I am not trying to find a way to spend money. I've been reading and reading trying to make sure I'm not missing something and whatever I do I want to make sure I get what Im looking for. I even looking for twins screw style superchargers to use on 351W....can you believe no one makes a twin screw for a pushrod Ford! I came across a company called B & H but I think they went out of business. I think forced induction would be the last route and I would only want go that way if it was a modular setup.
Haha geez those sound pretty stout. Do you have to pull a fuel wagon behind you? Pman's motor pulled really dang hard 5000rpm+. I guess it would take more cubic inch in order to get the seat of the pants power and more streetabliity down low. I would consider his car to be very sorted and it ran GREAT......sounds like a beast with those 3" gutted side pipes and man it has a bad*** idle to it. A few months back I was quoted $3500-$4000 for a complete refresh on my motor and putting it on the dyno. Im sure your looking at another $3000K for punching it out to a 445-460ci and thats assuming the Brodix heads would support it. If I could sell my setup and take the money I would be putting into the Windsor platform it would be a pretty good start. I'm just looking for seat of the pants power and roll on power. This is just a street cruiser and It will never see a 1/4 mile or a road track so the additional weight shouldn't really be something to worry about.

ace
it's a rabbit hole. congrats on your 1st cobra.
drive it for a year or so and then sell it and get the Cobra you really want.
use your motorcycle experience, start small like 250cc, learn to ride, sell it for 600cc, ride more, sell it for 1 liter.
same as cobras.. until you get a CSX and be done chasing.

[TN Shelby Cobra]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

ace
it's a rabbit hole. congrats on your 1st cobra.
drive it for a year or so and then sell it and get the Cobra you really want.
use your motorcycle experience, start small like 250cc, learn to ride, sell it for 600cc, ride more, sell it for 1 liter.
same as cobras.. until you get a CSX and be done chasing.

What the heck do you know about Cobra's? I sure wish they would ban you from this site!

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

ace
it's a rabbit hole. congrats on your 1st cobra.
drive it for a year or so and then sell it and get the Cobra you really want.
use your motorcycle experience, start small like 250cc, learn to ride, sell it for 600cc, ride more, sell it for 1 liter.
same as cobras.. until you get a CSX and be done chasing.

Thanks for the advice. I've owned the car since February and I've put about 1500 miles on it.....not a ton of miles but enough to get a good feel for what you do and don't like about it. The cobra was introduced about 20 year before I was born so the authenticity and everything that comes with that has eluded me. I am perfectly fine with the SPF and quite honestly would probably be fien with a BDR or a professionally built FFR. The car I purchased has everything I want in a cobra from an appearance point. The thought crossed my mind of just finding a big block car down the road but the chances of finding exactly what I would be looking for would be slim pickings. I intend to keep this car so I think personally the best move is to make it what I want it to be. I can't explain how much I enjoy driving the car.....it just makes you wonder why in the world people buy new age sports cars. Then again I think you have to be a real gear head to get pumped up about these cars. I have taken a friend or two for a spin and one of their first questions was "where is the radio?"!

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

ace
it's a rabbit hole. congrats on your 1st cobra.
drive it for a year or so and then sell it and get the Cobra you really want.
use your motorcycle experience, start small like 250cc, learn to ride, sell it for 600cc, ride more, sell it for 1 liter.
same as cobras.. until you get a CSX and be done chasing.

Thanks for the advice. I've owned the car since February and I've put about 1500 miles on it.....not a ton of miles but enough to get a good feel for what you do and don't like about it. The cobra was introduced about 20 year before I was born so the authenticity and everything that comes with that has eluded me. I am perfectly fine with the SPF and quite honestly would probably be fine with a BDR or a professionally built FFR. The car I purchased has everything I want in a cobra from an appearance point. The thought crossed my mind of just finding a big block car down the road but the chances of finding exactly what I would be looking for would be slim pickings. I intend to keep this car so I think personally the best move is to make it what I want it to be. I can't explain how much I enjoy driving the car.....it just makes you wonder why in the world people buy new age sports cars. Then again I think you have to be a real gear head to get pumped up about these cars. I have taken a friend or two for a spin and one of their first questions was "where is the radio?"!

[Ace23]

So i am back from cloud 9 and the love affair with a big block is over. It may be in my future but for now I'm going to bite the bullet and use the quality Windsor platform I have. I can be fairly certain that I will be forking out the $3,500 to have my setup freshened up and gone through. Depending on the cost I would like to "splurge" a bit and I am considering taking the 427 a bit larger. The two options that come to mind are the 445 and the 460. I see that Ford Racing offers a 460 351w package but I don't see many threads or talk about a 460 based windsor. Is there a reason or reasons more people don't run a 460 windsor? I got the shop cleaned out this past weekend so its getting real close to kicking this off! Below is what I'm leaning towards.

*I want a seat of the pants motor. While horsepower is important I do not want to chase horsepower numbers. I know that displacement is the name of the game so I'm betting the slightly larger bore Windsors only produce more overall power and torque through their rev range.

*6000rpm limit to keep it a hydraulic setup and functional. I hope I can really wake up the bottom and mid but still pull to 6k. I have shifted my current 427w setup at 6000rpm and can't really see pulling any higher on the street. I've driven Pmans 445 and pulled it to 6500rpm.....it was awesome. If I could get away with 6500rpm it would be sweet but I woudn't want to give up streetability or move the RPM range up to do it.

*Based on some past threads I came across it looks like a ported RPM Air Gap can flow as much as a Victor Jr. out of the box. If this is the case it seems like a ported dual plane like the RPM Air Gap would be a great option

*Going to be opening up my 2.5 exhaust to 3"


*I want the most cam I can get away with and I want it to sound nasty........I want the cake and I want to eat it too! I'm going to enlist Brents help in getting together a plan and I will probably hire Keith to do the work as I think he can get to it sooner.

*Depending on the budget I may go ahead and bite the EFI bullet. I know that this would effect the camshaft selection and would need to be considered

*Last but not least I'm going to dress up the engine a bit. I would like to take it to more of a polished look but add a more performance tone to it. I really like the aluminum looking valve covers with the exposed welds, black fittings ect...

[Ace23]

I drove the car over to a friends shop and it is time for the dirty work to begin. Popped the hood last night and within 10 minutes we found that the electric choke was getting 0 volts and essentially staying closed....pretty sure this is a contributing factor! We pulled a random spark plug wire off and tested resistance and it was dead as a nail.....the second wire tested out. Not a bad start for 10 minutes of work. New plug wires are in order and we will start chasing down why we are seeing zero volts at the choke....alternator will probably be coming off as well.

[Bernica]

That was a nice simple start to chasing the problem(s) down.
Good luck!

[Dwight]

tie the choke off and use the gas pedal to warm the motor up.

Dwight

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by Dwight

tie the choke off and use the gas pedal to warm the motor up.

Dwight

While this is always an option I think the more important issue is why we would not be seeing any voltage at the choke. Once we correct the voltage issue I will set the choke but completely removing it isn't off the table either.

[SPF1061]

Originally Posted by Ace23

While this is always an option I think the more important issue is why we would not be seeing any voltage at the choke. Once we correct the voltage issue I will set the choke but completely removing it isn't off the table either.

Ace23,
If the carb on your car has a choke, it is not truly a full on high performance carb. Everything else being equal, there is power to be had from a carburetor with smooth throttle bores and no choke. Not saying this is the sole answer to all of your performance issues, but if you are really trying to squeeze the max potential out of your motor, this should not be overlooked.

[Ace23]

10-21-2015
Pulled the alternator and went over to Advanced Auto Parts and tested it. The alternator failed so a replacement is needed. Pulled the old plug wires off and worked on getting the new plug wires loomed together. The valve covers were pulled for inspection and to apply new gaskets. We are going to get everything back on the car and replace the fuel filters as.......we will see how it runs knowing the chock is bypassed and if no improvement we will then look at pulling the motor.

[Pman1961]

I just crawel out from under Ace23 Cobra. The fuel pump appears to be a universal Carter carotor electric fuel pump with what looks like 5/16" plastic molded barbs. It says Carter 4B12A 430 on the housing. I've done a google search and can not find this particular fuel pump. All similar in appearance Carter carotor pumps do not seem to be performance pumps but more of OEM replacements and definitely not capable of supporting a 580+ hp motor. My first response is to ditch this setup and get a proper pump, filters, etc. I asked Ace23 if the car was born with another less horsepower motor as the reasoning for the selection of fuel pump. That answer will come later as he is uncertain until he looks over his paper work. Anybody on here knows the specs on his current pump?

[Pman1961]

Ace23 get your tail over my house!! Looks like Exxon Valdez oil spill the underside of your car!! Not nice you having me work on your car getting all dirty and stuff!!

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by Pman1961

Ace23 get your tail over my house!! Looks like Exxon Valdez oil spill the underside of your car!! Not nice you having me work on your car getting all dirty and stuff!!

All that oil is suppose to be a friction reducer......it helps the air flow under the body easier. Figured you already knew that

[Pman1961]

I guess I'm never to old to learn!!

[Ace23]

10-30-2015 Update:
Haven't touched the car since last Sunday but we got in about 3 hours of solid cleaning and it is looking much better underneath. I have ordered stainless steel brake lines and it looks like I will be needing to replace the fuel system. We have not removed the pump but from the looks of it the fuel pump is a Carter unit that flows 30GPH.....there wasn't even a fuel filter on the back side of the pump. Plan is to install a new pump, filters and line. The new valve cover gaskets and fabricated valve covers arrived yesterday and now we are waiting on the alternator. I don't think we are too far out from having it back on the ground and able to go take a test drive. If the car still feels really down on power we agreed to go ahead and pull the motor but did not want to do this without updating all the minor issue we have been finding. Have some additional scrubbing to do and will keep everyone updated. Will remember to start taking some pictures as well.

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by Pman1961

I just crawel out from under Ace23 Cobra. The fuel pump appears to be a universal Carter carotor electric fuel pump with what looks like 5/16" plastic molded barbs. It says Carter 4B12A 430 on the housing. I've done a google search and can not find this particular fuel pump. All similar in appearance Carter carotor pumps do not seem to be performance pumps but more of OEM replacements and definitely not capable of supporting a 580+ hp motor. My first response is to ditch this setup and get a proper pump, filters, etc. I asked Ace23 if the car was born with another less horsepower motor as the reasoning for the selection of fuel pump. That answer will come later as he is uncertain until he looks over his paper work. Anybody on here knows the specs on his current pump?

As an update to Pman's comment on the power plant specswe have not come across any indication that the motor in the car is any different than the Keith Craft build sheet. I would say at this point we are 100% sure of what we are working with when it comes to the power plant. The engine dyno shows power still being made and pulling to 7,000rpm......given the 2" headers and the higher duration cam this explains the power band of the car. Hopefully with a fuel pump change and the new plug wires we experience some new results

[Ace23]

11-8-2015 Update
We were able to remove the fuel system and do some more cleaning and scrubbing under the hood. The new electric fuel pump is mounted as well as the new fuel rail. We need to acquire a few more fittings and then we can button it up. When the Carter fuel pump came off we measured the outlet and it was literally 1/8" inch diamater. The next purchase needs to be a quicktime bellhousing and a polished intake manifold. I currently have a victor jr. and I'm trying to research the RPM air gap vs Victor Jr. options. I have found that there are just about as many people that favor the dual plane as do the single plane manifolds. I have to consider my existing specifications and enlist an engine builder to help guide me in the right direction. Will update as changes occur

[Ace23]

11-8-2015 Update
We were able to remove the fuel system and do some more cleaning and scrubbing under the hood. The new electric fuel pump is mounted as well as the new fuel rail. We need to acquire a few more fittings and then we can button it up. When the Carter fuel pump came off we measured the outlet and it was literally 1/8" inch diamater. The next purchase needs to be a quicktime bellhousing and a polished intake manifold. I currently have a victor jr. and I'm trying to research the RPM air gap vs Victor Jr. options. I have found that there are just about as many people that favor the dual plane as do the single plane manifolds. I have to consider my existing specifications and enlist an engine builder to help guide me in the right direction. Will update as changes occur

[Bernica]

IMHO, I wouldn't use a single-plane intake for a street application.