Best way to proceed with improving up 427 Windsor street setup

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by blykins

Not bad at all. In fact, it's better...

Think about guys running vac advance, which gives an additional amount of advance to the mechanical. At cruising rpm/speed, these guys are seeing WAY more than what you would see.

Well we changed the springs and ended up with full advance around 2800rpm. We were able to put about 20 miles on the car and I woud say everything we did was an improvement to the car. We pulled it to 7000rpm and in my opinion about 6000rpm you get the oh sh** feeling. I'm very happy with the improvement but thats alot of RPM to get to before you feel like your actually in a fast car. With my current gearing we were knocking on 130mph at 7000rpm in in 3rd. I'm all for fast stuff but thats hauling butt on the street and I don't think thats something I want to do in the car everytime I go for a drive. Feels good to know the motor must be pretty solid still so lets continue on with this saga.

*Headers- jus as many people and articles on how big headers are better as there are that small headers are better. Up is down and down is up.

*Gearing- I believe I have the .82 TKO-600 and the car has 3:31's in it. Gearing has really been mentioned in this thread but I think this is something that could be overlooked. The first thought I have is that 3:73's would be a good move but I've read some interesting threads on 4:10's. The fastest I would cruise is 70mph but the majority of my driving is under 70mph.

*Camshaft-From what you have said this is a big culprit if not the biggest. Current dyno shows the motor peaking at 6600rpm. I like winding the motor out but with these gears and 7000rpm its a pretty good stretch and nothing feels like its happeniing until you are 5500-7000rpm "which is exaclty what you said the cam should be like"

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by blykins

Not bad at all. In fact, it's better...

Think about guys running vac advance, which gives an additional amount of advance to the mechanical. At cruising rpm/speed, these guys are seeing WAY more than what you would see.

Originally Posted by blykins

Not bad at all. In fact, it's better...

Think about guys running vac advance, which gives an additional amount of advance to the mechanical. At cruising rpm/speed, these guys are seeing WAY more than what you would see.

Well we changed the springs and ended up with full advance around 2800rpm. We were able to put about 20 miles on the car and I woud say everything we did was an improvement to the car. We pulled it to 7000rpm and in my opinion about 6000rpm you get the oh sh** feeling. I'm very happy with the improvement but thats alot of RPM to get to before you feel like your actually in a fast car. With my current gearing we were knocking on 130mph at 7000rpm in in 3rd. I'm all for fast stuff but thats hauling butt on the street and I don't think thats something I want to do in the car everytime I go for a drive. Feels good to know the motor must be pretty solid still so lets continue on with this saga.

*Headers- jus as many people and articles on how big headers are better as there are that small headers are better. Up is down and down is up.

*Gearing- I believe I have the .82 TKO-600 and the car has 3:31's in it. Gearing has really been mentioned in this thread but I think this is something that could be overlooked. The first thought I have is that 3:73's would be a good move but I've read some interesting threads on 4:10's. The fastest I would cruise is 70mph but the majority of my driving is under 70mph.

*Camshaft-From what you have said this is a big culprit if not the biggest. Current dyno shows the motor peaking at 6600rpm. I like winding the motor out but with these gears and 7000rpm its a pretty good stretch and nothing feels like its happeniing until you are 5500-7000rpm "which is exaclty what you said the cam should be like"

[RET_COP]

I have the same trans and rear gear you have. It is nice cruising 73mph at 2500 in 5th with a useful 1st gear. Autocross in 2nd 25mph 2000rpms- 55mph 4500rpms so not too bad. I thought of 3.55 but the guys here talked me out of it (for now) and I'm glad they did. With the .82 5th and a light car with a big CI motor I'd say your in a good range. 4.10s forget it unless your drag racing.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by Ace23

Well we changed the springs and ended up with full advance around 2800rpm. We were able to put about 20 miles on the car and I woud say everything we did was an improvement to the car. We pulled it to 7000rpm and in my opinion about 6000rpm you get the oh sh** feeling. I'm very happy with the improvement but thats alot of RPM to get to before you feel like your actually in a fast car. With my current gearing we were knocking on 130mph at 7000rpm in in 3rd. I'm all for fast stuff but thats hauling butt on the street and I don't think thats something I want to do in the car everytime I go for a drive. Feels good to know the motor must be pretty solid still so lets continue on with this saga.

*Headers- jus as many people and articles on how big headers are better as there are that small headers are better. Up is down and down is up.

*Gearing- I believe I have the .82 TKO-600 and the car has 3:31's in it. Gearing has really been mentioned in this thread but I think this is something that could be overlooked. The first thought I have is that 3:73's would be a good move but I've read some interesting threads on 4:10's. The fastest I would cruise is 70mph but the majority of my driving is under 70mph.

*Camshaft-From what you have said this is a big culprit if not the biggest. Current dyno shows the motor peaking at 6600rpm. I like winding the motor out but with these gears and 7000rpm its a pretty good stretch and nothing feels like its happeniing until you are 5500-7000rpm "which is exaclty what you said the cam should be like"

The characteristics of your engine are what I look for with my own personal stuff. I like the higher revving pieces....

If I owned your car, I would stick a 4.10 gear in it and reap the benefits.

Otherwise, you'll have to make a decision on where you want the power to be and how you want to drive the car, then make it do what you want.

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by blykins

The characteristics of your engine are what I look for with my own personal stuff. I like the higher revving pieces....

If I owned your car, I would stick a 4.10 gear in it and reap the benefits.

Otherwise, you'll have to make a decision on where you want the power to be and how you want to drive the car, then make it do what you want.

If you went with 4:10's would that eliminate the need to swap the cam? I bet a T56 would be needed if you intended to have a hwy gear of if you wanted to be able to cruise at 70mph at a rational rpm. In a nutshell I do like the higher rpms and everything that comes with that I just don't want to have to be breaking mach 1 to feel like the car is moving. I want more acceleration not top speed. If my car topped out at 140mph I wouldn't care. We are going to have to do a little bit of carb adjustment as well as it was doing some lean backfires coming down from 7000K but we kinda expected that

[RET_COP]

Nice work. You definitely don't want lean backfire but a little snap, crackle, pop is good. I like to say, A little lean is real mean.

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by RET_COP

Nice work. You definitely don't want lean backfire but a little snap, crackle, pop is good. I like to say, A little lean is real mean.

We are getting there slowly. If I learn anything from these cars it will be that you have to basically take it and make it into what you want it to be. I'm very pleased to know the motor is solid and runs like a banshee on the VERY top end I used to have big hp hayabusa's and I enjoy the speed but I feel like I have a lot less control of one of these cars than a bike. I want to up the rate of acceleration and reduce the overall speed but I don't want to be running out of steam at 5500.....you know just like everyone else I want my cake and the ice cream to go with it!

[blykins]

Going from 3.31 to 4.10 would make it feel like a different car. Prob wouldn't need new cam.

[RET_COP]

I wanted everything also, my custom cam does just that, maybe not perfect for one particular thing, but , autocross, drag racing, and good street manners with a great sound. I'd say i got it all. Your right, you taylor the car to you exact liking, can vett guy do that without voiding the warranty

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by blykins

Going from 3.31 to 4.10 would make it feel like a different car. Prob wouldn't need new cam.

Do you sell a trailer hitch for the fuel wagon I would lug around the 4.10's would atleast be able to pull it. With a gearing change like this are you leaving the TKO-600 .82 alone or are you changing something there as well.

[blykins]

Leave it alone....it won't tach as high as what you think.

[Pman1961]

RET COP there was no backfire. Just the slight snap, crackle, like popcorn during deceleration after a hard run. I've turn the idle air/fuel screws out about an 1/8" of a turn but we have yet to take the car back out.

[RET_COP]

That means you are close on your tune. I set mine up lean so it surges just a little and then go up 2 jets on the primary. I'm 1 jet size off from getting rid of that Snap Crackle Pop, just the way I like it. I adjust between summer and cold weather. It's not easy reading plugs on a weekend or daily driver.
One day I took my 1 1/2" primaries off and noticed they were black. I cut my exhaust apart and found the mufflers were 2 1/4 ID, I tossed it all away. I put on a pair of Classsic Chambered 3" ID Cobrapacks and 2 3/4" primaries. I ran the car for a few months and removed the primaries, they were Lt Tan to ivory White. Everything was just so backed up, it changed the whole tune and car in general. I now run a Pro-System carb, a Victor Jr. intake, Brodix ported heads and that exhaust. These cars are so light that I haven't lost anything down low that I can feel. I chassis dynoed the car and I was pretty close for tune. Some day Ill buy a A/F meter and really have some fun.
Keep thrashing, it's the best part of owning these cars, we're never bored.
A buddy of mine bought a real nice Shelby GT 500, he parked next to me at a cruise night. He said it was real nice and his wife liked it but it gets boring fast.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by RET_COP

I now run a Pro-Sysyen carb.

Another thumbs up for the Pro Systems carbs! Patrick solved my issues a few years ago!

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by RET_COP

That means you are close on your tune. I set mine up lean so it surges just a little and then go up 2 jets on the primary. I'm 1 jet size off from getting rid of that Snap Crackle Pop, just the way I like it. I adjust between summer and cold weather. It's not easy reading plugs on a weekend or daily driver.
One day I took my 1 1/2" primaries off and noticed they were black. I cut my exhaust apart and found the mufflers were 2 1/4 ID, I tossed it all away. I put on a pair of Classsic Chambered 3" ID Cobrapacks and 2 3/4" primaries. I ran the car for a few months and removed the primaries, they were Lt Tan to ivory White. Everything was just so backed up, it changed the whole tune and car in general. I now run a Pro-System carb, a Victor Jr. intake, Brodix ported heads and that exhaust. These cars are so light that I haven't lost anything down low that I can feel. I chassis dynoed the car and I was pretty close for tune. Some day Ill buy a A/F meter and really have some fun.
Keep thrashing, it's the best part of owning these cars, we're never bored.
A buddy of mine bought a real nice Shelby GT 500, he parked next to me at a cruise night. He said it was real nice and his wife liked it but it gets boring fast.

Man I can't ever imagine going back to a modern performance car to replace the cobra. Interesting on your exhaust......I currently am running 2-1/2 side pipes from Firefly. I have spoken with them and I'm looking to move to a set of the 3" exhaust. I'm not sure what it will do but I like the more aggressive sounding exhaust. I need to speak to Ron with Firefly and see if there are any options for baffle selections. My current exhaust has a higher pitch sound compared to Pman's modified SPF pipes which are deeper sounding.

[SPF1061]

Originally Posted by blykins

X2....

Most performance applications in general respond very well to a quick timing curve. I would set the total timing to be all in by about 2600-2800.

I have a question about the MSD mechanical advance adjustments. I have been running the heavy silver springs in my 427R and am going to switch to the blue springs to see how the engine likes it. No one has mentioned the bushings. I have the black bushings in mine. Is it ok to leave those with the blue springs or is it best to use a different bushing. If I understand correctly the bushing sets the amount of advance the spring weights add, so in effect, if I set my timing all in (32/34 degrees) the bushings set the amount of initial advance. Black bushing would be 14/16 degree initial timing with 32/34 all in. Different bushings would give me less initial timing for the same all in timing. Thoughts?

[blykins]

Look at MSD's charts. You may have to manipulate both bushing and springs.

[jhv48]

The bushings limit how many degrees the timing advances. I believe the black bushing is 18 degrees. The springs limit how fast or slow the timing advances as you rev the engine (lighter springs, faster advance). The initial timing is set by you at idle. So, 16 degrees initial timing plus 18 degrees added from the black bushing nets you 34 degrees total. The springs control at what rpm that total advance is reached.

Clear as mud, right?

[Ace23]

Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving. Pman and I took out the car for a 75 mile cruise last Wednesday night as this was my first time in the drivers seat since getting the car back on the road. The car ran great and the most interesting thing of the night was that the car appeared to be getting about 15-16mpg and previously it was getting about 9-10. I am going to test it again but that was really a big improvement. I made some pretty good pulls in the car and was shifting around 6900rpm.....the high rpm's are really growing on me and I think I can learn to enjoy the car for awhile the way it is. I will just have to teach myself how to drive something that requires higher RPMs. I came from a car that was making 530rwtq at 2500rpm so it is ust a completely different feel. I'm going to put a bit more seat time in it but I'm kicking the idea around of trying out a new gear ratio. With the .84 5th gear I have I think 3.73 may be a good start for me. I have printed out a few different rear ratio options and I'm going to review. I really don't want to get into any major changes right now I just want to have fun with the car. I figure the 3.73 gear would be inexpensive and something relatively simple and quick to change. If it turns out I don't like it I can go back to the 3.31's. We are also still tossing around the header change and what is involved......I don't think I have ever been so on the fence about what the results would be on a part swap. I've watched about every header test on youtube and searched every 1-3/4 vs 2" header test on forum that I can find. My heads are Brodix Track 1's and that may pose a challenge in requiring custom headers

[RET_COP]

The Black is 18* the blue is 21*. Bushings give your your spread between the initial and Total timing. Leave the Black in there unless you need less initial. The total timing is what your engine runs best at weather or not you change the curve.