Best way to proceed with improving up 427 Windsor street setup

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

950 carb?

I am running 858 CFM carb custom built by Pro Systems on a BBF 482 , so at first glance a 950 seems to be a lot for an SBF regardless of the cubes and cam you may have . Just sayin'..

[scottj]

750, 850, 950 does not refer to the progression in size one would think. A 950 has an 850 throttle plate (1-3/4") and a 750 venture (1-3/8"). An 850 is actually a bigger carb as it has a 1-9/16" venture. The 750 has a 1-11/16" throttle plate. I've always run a 750 or a 950 on big small blocks on the street and usually the 750.

IMO this motor begs for a large solid roller...

[SPF1061]

I have been following this thread and have found very little info/suggestions regarding the original question. I would like to steer it back in that direction for a moment. I own a Roush 427R with an AED HO-Modified 750 cfm carb that is dialed in. I am running 4" stainless specialties mufflers. I tried the larger diameter SPF headers, but the torque lost down low more than offset the the free-er breathing I got at the very top end. Actually lost hp and a couple of tenths off et. The car runs well with no issues. (11:30-11:50 sets depending on weather). The issue is simply that I have become accustomed to this much power and want more. What would the informed reader suggest to take this engine to the next level without destroying it's street manners. I do not want to go to a solid cam. Any suggestions?

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by SPF1061

I have been following this thread and have found very little info/suggestions regarding the original question. I would like to steer it back in that direction for a moment. I own a Roush 427R with an AED HO-Modified 750 cfm carb that is dialed in. I am running 4" stainless specialties mufflers. I tried the larger diameter SPF headers, but the torque lost down low more than offset the the free-er breathing I got at the very top end. Actually lost hp and a couple of tenths off et. The car runs well with no issues. (11:30-11:50 sets depending on weather). The issue is simply that I have become accustomed to this much power and want more. What would the informed reader suggest to take this engine to the next level without destroying it's street manners. I do not want to go to a solid cam. Any suggestions?

Forced induction..........

BTW: solid roller camshafts are fairly maintenance free compared to the old solid camshafts of yesteryear......
On my race engine (331 stroker) I ran a solid roller cam for 8 seasons and once a year would "run" the valves and more often than not,only made a slight adjustment on 1/3 of them, the rest were just fine...

david

[jhv48]

Nitrous or forced induction are your next steps if you want to maintain proper street manners.

But, your tires won't let you use most of the power until you get to fourth gear.

[RET_COP]

If your only producing about 530HP from a 427 you have not experienced the full satisfying power of a well build 427. Something is very mismatched. Get the right parts and tune and if you get the true 585 you not only will pull from 2000rpms, it will scare you at 6500rpms in a 2500 lb. car.
I have a 351 with the right parts all sourced out to matched and I'm at 490FWHP or 1.4HP/CI. I can pull from 2000 rpms. to 6400rpms. 1.4HP/CI in a 427 is 597HP. Get your Carb, Intake, Heads, valvetrain,cam, and exhaust to match and you won't be disapointed, trust me.
I have great street manners also and you will too, and good gas mileage in the highway.
The easy way out is power adders. Like what was already said they work also, but you said you want the lumpy radical sound of a windsor, my advice will give you all of that

[Bernica]

IMHO, adding NOS or whatever is the chicken way out. Will give you more power but not solving the current issue and may even break something sooner.
My 2c

[RET_COP]

Agree Bernica, N/A all the way !!

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by blykins

252/262 @ .050"?

If that's duration at .050", that's a very large camshaft for a 427. My engines that are around this displacement and use hydraulic rollers have about 12-14 degrees less duration and peak at around 6000-6200.

My guess is that the cam has been changed sometime in the car's life and that cam does not match the rest of the engine/car/goals. Your compression test shows low because the cam is so large and the numbers actually jive for a cam that large.

I'm thinking that if these are .050" duration numbers, the cam is so big that you have no bottom end and you can't run high enough in the rpm range where the cam wants to be efficient.

If those numbers are advertised duration numbers, then that would be a tow truck cam....

I'd change the cam....

Following up on this. Per the Comp Cam Slip that is part of the motor build sheet the info below is listed. If this information makes since to you it makes you wonder why a camshaft such as this was used.

*Gross Valve Lift .576 Intake / .576 Exhaust
*Duration at .006 Valve Lift 314 Intake / 329 Exhaust
*At 112 Intake Center Line / Duration at .050 252 Intake / 262 Exhaust

[RET_COP]

too much duration and I would rather see a 108 to 110 LSA, the 112* plus your duration kills the low end and makes the cam seem bigger for the 427, it's all wrong IMO.
110 advanced to 107 with duration's 240 to 250 would be much better and you'd be making more power in the desired rpm range for that 427.
Unless of course your buzzing it with the right heads and intake, but then, there goes the street manners.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by Ace23

Following up on this. Per the Comp Cam Slip that is part of the motor build sheet the info below is listed. If this information makes since to you it makes you wonder why a camshaft such as this was used.

*Gross Valve Lift .576 Intake / .576 Exhaust
*Duration at .006 Valve Lift 314 Intake / 329 Exhaust
*At 112 Intake Center Line / Duration at .050 252 Intake / 262 Exhaust

I'm not sure why it was used. Poor choice. That much duration in a hydraulic roller with a 427 inch engine will kill the bottom end and kill the top end too. As I said before, this is what all the fingers are pointing at, IMO.

Nothing wrong with the 112 LSA, BTW, it helps with vacuum and with making the curve broader, but that duration is just out of the ballpark. When you see advertised durations near 320-330 degrees, that's why your cranking compression is very low.....TONS of overlap and the intake valve is not closing until very late.

I have custom hydraulic rollers that I like to use for my 427's and as I mentioned before, you're about 12-14 degrees too high...

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by blykins

I'm not sure why it was used. Poor choice. That much duration in a hydraulic roller with a 427 inch engine will kill the bottom end and kill the top end too. As I said before, this is what all the fingers are pointing at, IMO.

Nothing wrong with the 112 LSA, BTW, it helps with vacuum and with making the curve broader, but that duration is just out of the ballpark. When you see advertised durations near 320-330 degrees, that's why your cranking compression is very low.....TONS of overlap and the intake valve is not closing until very late.

I have custom hydraulic rollers that I like to use for my 427's and as I mentioned before, you're about 12-14 degrees too high...

Given that it was 10 years ago and I didn't have the motor built I can't really blame the motor builder. The builder may have highly advised against this but the owner may have insisted even against the builders advice.....who knows. We still have a list of things to go through but it sounds like I could be giving you a ring to spec a cam.

[blykins]

That's the assumption I'm going under....it was changed at some point in its life, not built with that cam from the get-go.

[madmaxx]

They cam specs in Ace motor is very very very close to another large distributor of stroked 427's which many use without issue. My guess is the cam originally speced has been changed.

[blykins]

I don't think I know of anyone that would use that large of a hydraulic roller in that size of an engine. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my 482 FE's, with almost 60 cubes more displacement, only need 248 @ .050" to peak the horsepower at around 6000.

[scottj]

Originally Posted by blykins

I don't think I know of anyone that would use that large of a hydraulic roller in that size of an engine. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my 482 FE's, with almost 60 cubes more displacement, only need 248 @ .050" to peak the horsepower at around 6000.

What about a large solid roller. Speaking in terms of performance only, not maintenance, reliability, or liability when Joe Average breaks it and bashes the builder all over the net.

[blykins]

I'm a big solid roller fan....

I think the situation here is that the cam is so large that the engine has no bottom end.....and a large hydraulic roller that will turn rpms requires some specialized parts to let it do that....IF the cylinder heads will support it as well.

Keep in mind that a 254-260° @ .050" solid roller cam would probably peak at 6800-7000. That's about where this engine would want to run if it could.

[Jerry Clayton]

2" headers are too big, 2 1/2 mufflers too little, carb too little, ignition not opt, intake questionable----------- on an engine dyno this could probably do lots better, but in the car with those components mis matched------boggie gas guzzler

[Detroit Bill]

What is the life of solid roller on the street. What is the life of hydraulic roller on the street?

Just curious.

[blykins]

A hydraulic roller should last 100k miles and more. Nothing different than an OEM hydraulic roller, which is what most OEM engines use....

The issue with a solid roller on the street is valve lash being introduced. Constant pounding of the bearings in the lifter take a toll and eventually the lifters have to be rebuilt.

Cheap lifters will last about 3000-5000 miles before they need rebuilt. Quality solid roller lifters with bushings instead of needle bearings can last up to 30000 miles.