Best way to proceed with improving up 427 Windsor street setup

[Ace23]

Well that whole high rpm euphoria lasted a whole 24 hours. Custom cam on the way Going to lower the peak power down to about 6000 so I can still get my feel for the higher rpms. My expectation is that the low end and midrange is going to improve. I was told my cam had 100 degrees of overlap so out with the old and in with the new. I'm also still young enough to get Christmas presents from the parents so a few polished components should show up around the holiday season to finish out the car.

[Pman1961]

ACE23...have we not talked about my hourly rate? Getting my fingers dirty costs extra. Looks like we have some more fun ahead with polished intake, water pump, cam, bell housing, AN fittings, etc.

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by Pman1961

ACE23...have we not talked about my hourly rate? Getting my fingers dirty costs extra. Looks like we have some more fun ahead with polished intake, water pump, cam, bell housing, AN fittings, etc.

Don't get in such a hurry I'm drawing up plans on how to start a pyramid scheme to fund this stuff you've gotten me into

[tuska]

so have you put on dyno to check yet? were all missing hp still there just hiding in bad tune/sad parts?

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by tuska

so have you put on dyno to check yet? were all missing hp still there just hiding in bad tune/sad parts?

Yes, the car was put on the dyno back in May and the low power is what started all this. The tune is fine and now all the parts on the car are fine....I would like to take it to the local dyno to make a pull so I can compare once we do the cam swap. The car feels like it makes good power now but in my personal opinion its a bad combo for a street engine unless you like to ring it out to 7000K all the time. While I do enjoy the higher RPM's I do much more cruising that requires 2000-4000K. I have always had forced induction on cars and motorcycles and I guess I'm just not cut out for N/A power bands. I would prefer to keep a N/A setup in the car but I know I can't get what I want out of it....I sure wish someone made a Whipple, or TVS blower for a Windsor! Way down the road I can see a supercharged coyote platform. I would be willing to trade the Windsor idle sound for more power, better driving characteristics and better MPG. I am in no hurry I'm going to get the cam changed and a few small details and enjoy being a cobra owner. I've only owned the car for 10 months so I'm very fortunate to have Pman in my corner and at the point where I have a beautiful well sorted car I can enjoy. It is a great feeling to jump in the car and it fire right up for a 70 mile spin.

[madmaxx]

It is possible to change the cam with engine in the car. You have to remove the radiator fans. You disconnect motor mounts and jack engine up and swing engine to driver side to clear the front cross bar and the cam comes out in the fan opening.

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

It is possible to change the cam with engine in the car. You have to remove the radiator fans. You disconnect motor mounts and jack engine up and swing engine to driver side to clear the front cross bar and the cam comes out in the fan opening.

Interesting. I will see what Pman wants to do since it is his garage. I know he has pulled his motor a few times changing engine combos. I'm pretty excited about the new cam from Brent. He went with a 108LSA and brought the peak power down to 6000rpm from 6600rpm. Should be a good compromise to what I have now.

[madmaxx]

You have to weigh the risk. Working over the fenders or lifitning. Just make sure you protect your paint. If you pull I would strongly suggest you rear main seal is perfect and not leaking as this would be the time to replace. I assume you can just lay the headers to the side, getting the drivers side header out is a little tricky. If someone has done it before than they will know the path of least resistance.

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

You have to way the risk. Working over the fenders or lifitning. Just make sure you protect your paint. If you pull I would strongly suggest you rear main seal is perfect and not leaking as this would be the time to replace. I assume you can just lay the headers to the side, getting the drivers out is a little tricky. If someone has done it before than they will know the path of least resistance.

Perry prefers to pull the transmission out through the interior so you can just lift the motor straight out. The main seal and a few other things are definelty on the table due to the motor being out. The car is 12 years old so I will probably look at replacing some of the hoses as well.

[Pman1961]

Cam change is not the only modifications or improvements Ace23 has planned for the car. Polished Intake, polished water pump, quick-time bell housing, rear main seal, change AN fittings to a clear or black finish, etc. Yes, I would assume taking out some components such as the radiator and lifting the motor the cam swap is a possibility, However, by removing or disconnecting a few more items we can lift the motor out, put on a stand and swap parts without breaking our backs. Setting valves, degreeing the cam and checking bellhousing alignment all will be easier as well. Most of all Ace23 can finish detailing the engine compartment! Wax on wax off.....

[madmaxx]

I agree pulling the motor and working on a stand is much easier once the engine is out. With all the work you guys are doing I agree, just a cam change, do it in the car. I have had more than my share of polished engines. Beautiful when new but can be a real PIA to keep shining once moisture get on it, especially items like water pump. I recommend Commetic gaskets which are metal core. That way you don't have to worry about squeeze out when installing and use loctite on the water pump backing plate bolts as you can't tighten after installed. The water pump design is so pathetic with the variety of bolts and backing plates. I also had my timing cover polished and I would get the water pump backing plate chromed. Make sure you get the right intake gaskets also if you need a list a parts let me know.

[ralc]

had a similar problem. Nelson Specialties in Mooresville, NC did the distributor and back on the same dyno, it picked up 46 HP He is amazing. Turns out the advance curve was way off and the gear was grinding into the block

[Luce]

Wait a minute. Isn't the gear supposed to rub on the block? The clearance dimension for the end play in the distributor keeps the top of the distributor bushing from being the thrust face as it doesn't have positive lubrication.

Yea, I know it's a 5 month old thread. I was dumbfounded to learn that SBC dizzy is on the other side of the cam and the thrust tries to push the distributor out of the engine unlike Ford and Mopar where the thrust is pulling the distributor down (or the drive shaft in the case of the Mopar)

My block has a nicely machined surface for the dizzy gear to rub on.

[SPF1061]

Originally Posted by ralc

had a similar problem. Nelson Specialties in Mooresville, NC did the distributor and back on the same dyno, it picked up 46 HP He is amazing. Turns out the advance curve was way off and the gear was grinding into the block

Just another vote for Nelson Specialties. My idle was hanging up at around 1200rpm and I determined that the distributor advance was not fully returning. Sent the dizzy to Nelson for a blueprint/rebuild. Solved the idle problem and the seat of the pants performance gain was noticeable. Very knowledgable and helpful folks. Highly recommended.

[Ace23]

I'm having a bit too much fun driving right now to pull the motor. I am considering a gearing change. I run 315/35/17 and I have a TKO-600 .82 with a 3.31 rear gear. I think going to a different gear could really take advantage of the current cam in the car for right now.My car does not buck but it likes to be about 2000+ when cruising. I am leaning towards 3.91 ratio and possibly going with a .64 5th gear. The gearing calculator shows 38mph-48mph in 4th between 2000-2500rpm and 5th will give me 59mph-74mph between 2000-2500rpm. That seems like a pretty good mix of back road and interstate speed. Does anyone run this combo or having any advice? The .82 does not really work out too well with anything much higher than 3.46. I loath driving down the road at 3000rpms when cruising so the .64 is pretty attractive to me. I wouldn't completely rule out 4.10's either......I think the largest issue will be traction as the current setup is 590HP / 570TQ. Just an inexpensive way to make the car feel a lot faster and it could use more gear for sure.
Thanks

[RET_COP]

Sounds like your in a nice spot--just drive it. I have that combo and if anything a change to 3.55 because of the aluminum FW I have is something I may do, but with your TQ of 570 and no bucking and you want Back Roads AND Interstate driving I think you should stay. If you change the 5th gear to .64 you could then bump it up but 570 TQ !!? yikes

[jhv48]

If you go for the .64 fifth gear, you're going to hate the 1000 rpm drop when you go from fourth to fifth. I switched from the .64 to the .82 as I was tired of having a useless fifth speed. Granted I could cruise at 75 mph with the engine barely running, but when I wanted some spirited passing, I had to drop to fourth. Now I turn 2600 rpm at 70 mph and my engine is right in its happy zone if I want to accelerate or pass.

Leave it as it is.

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by RET_COP

Sounds like your in a nice spot--just drive it. I have that combo and if anything a change to 3.55 because of the aluminum FW I have is something I may do, but with your TQ of 570 and no bucking and you want Back Roads AND Interstate driving I think you should stay. If you change the 5th gear to .64 you could then bump it up but 570 TQ !!? yikes

I have a pretty good amount of duration in the cam but I'm guessing the 112LSA has something to do with it not bucking. The engine dyno is what was showing the 570TQ

Originally Posted by jhv48

If you go for the .64 fifth gear, you're going to hate the 1000 rpm drop when you go from fourth to fifth. I switched from the .64 to the .82 as I was tired of having a useless fifth speed. Granted I could cruise at 75 mph with the engine barely running, but when I wanted some spirited passing, I had to drop to fourth. Now I turn 2600 rpm at 70 mph and my engine is right in its happy zone if I want to accelerate or pass.

Leave it as it is.

If I went to a .64 you would need to run some pretty stout gears. After looking at the gearing calculator the 3.73 might be about as far as I would be willing to take it with the .82 5th. 70MPH with the 3.73 would leave me about 2800rpm which isn't too bad. This may be the least expensive thing to try first. Brent said throw the 4.10's in it but I think I do too much higher speed cruising for that.

[Shootnride]

There have been quite a few threads on this forum about this subject and it always fascinates me just how different our individual preferences are concerning gear ratios and especially the .64 vs .82 overdrive ratios. I have a 456 cu in FE making about 500/500 HP/TQ. With the cam I have in my motor it likes to run above 2000 RPM. I'm running 15" tires, 3.73 rear end and .64 5th gear. I'm turning about 2300 RPM at 70 MPH in 5th gear, which suits me perfectly. When I drop to 4th gear at 70 MPH I'm turning about 3300 RPM. As JHV48 said, it's a 1000 RPM drop between 4th and 5th but I find that I still have plenty of torque for passing.

Ted

[8litercobra]

What Shootnride said - "it always fascinates me just how different our individual preferences are concerning gear ratios and especially the .64 vs .82 overdrive ratios". I just put in a T56 and have both!! Still finishing up the install......wish me luck.