An upcoming engine build....and a little game... - Page 3

legenmetals · #41 (**permalink**) 12-10-2015, 09:27 AM

Gotcha on the lift.... I'm rethinking this.... Higher rod ratio equates to more dwell time at the top of the stroke so you would build with more cam duration.???? Now I'm wondering about lobe separation.

blykins · #42 (**permalink**) 12-10-2015, 09:29 AM

Well, cam duration affects where the peak hp rpm is going to be.

LSA determines torque and lets the exhaust scavenge the intake.

Other than that, I won't be able to foreclose a lot of specific specs. That's kinda part of the game.....how good of a guesser you are.

lippy · #43 (**permalink**) 12-10-2015, 09:42 AM

347 ci, 580 hp

legenmetals · #44 (**permalink**) 12-10-2015, 09:56 AM

In the end it's going to be a guess. I'm having fun using my limited knowledge on engines and I'm trying to use reason for the final answers. Guessing is easy, but not as much fun.

blykins · #45 (**permalink**) 12-10-2015, 09:58 AM

Plus the duration would kinda give away the displacement......

legenmetals · #46 (**permalink**) 12-10-2015, 10:55 AM

So... Choices are using factory heads and 5.7 rods ( I'm analyzing your displacement comment)

1. De-stroke- works with those rods and heads, but what would you do with this engine?
2. stock stroke- works with those rods and heads
3. stroker- not with those heads

I'm still at 289 c.i.

Kit Coyle · #47 (**permalink**) 12-10-2015, 12:56 PM

It is starting to look like a 1969-70 Boss style race engine without the Cleveland
heads so that you can use your own port and valve train design. If it is bored
but destroked you would have a very high reving 289 with very quick throttle
response. Am I guessing in the right direction?? How about a 289 cu" engine
with about 585 hp.?

legenmetals · #48 (**permalink**) 12-10-2015, 02:07 PM

That's one of the options I was considering. I will have to research class rules throughout different racing groups allowing changes to stroke and bore. Maybe I'll find Jimmy Hoffa in this investigation.

xb-60 · #49 (**permalink**) 12-10-2015, 05:54 PM

Observations....

Sidelining early suggestions of 427/600hp and 482/800, the highest estimate so far is 585hp and engine size guess is 289ci. That's 125hp per liter.

Back in 1988, the last Cosworth DFZs in F1 were 3.5 liter, producing 590hp for 168hp per liter (but needed a rebuild after 200 miles)

The Ferrari F355 was the first stock street engine (I think) to produce over 100hp per liter (3.5liter, 5 valve, 375hp, 8500rpm top end, 107hp per liter)

When are you going to close the book and give us the details Brent?

Cheers,
Glen

legenmetals · #50 (**permalink**) 12-10-2015, 06:48 PM

Takes a lot of C.F.M. going through those heads to get to 585 H.P.

Grubby · #51 (**permalink**) 12-10-2015, 07:13 PM

289 / 470 hp

John

Bernica · #52 (**permalink**) 12-10-2015, 07:14 PM

Yes, 585hp seems like a lot unless going way exotic and pumping it.

Tom Cimino · #53 (**permalink**) 12-10-2015, 08:47 PM

My official second guess. 255 cu in/400 hp.

I took all the known measurements of a 289/302 block and rods (crankshaft centerline to deck, 1/2 of the stroke on both the 289 and 302, connecting rod length C/C) and drew the cylinder on graph paper. I determined that with where the top of the wrist pin hole ended up using a 5.7" rod that the stroke has to be less than the 2.870" stroke of the 289.

legenmetals · #54 (**permalink**) 12-10-2015, 09:11 PM

Stan Weiss' - Automotive Performance Software / Interactive JavaScript to Calculate Engine Size in Cubic Inches and CC's

Play around with this

acinider · #55 (**permalink**) 12-10-2015, 10:23 PM

Vintage racer build.
289 CI
500 HP

legenmetals · #56 (**permalink**) 12-10-2015, 10:34 PM

How well these heads flow is going to be the key to the horsepower answer.

Any thoughts?

Jac Mac · #57 (**permalink**) 12-11-2015, 01:36 AM

Using the darkside for some relative info... the best 302 Chevs from Formula A /5000 in the late 70's had ~525hp on lucas timed injection, with 3.00" stroke & 5.700" or 6.000" rods and Z28 angle plug iron heads & 1.6/2.02 valves.
Now compare that with the info to date and the heads, webers, exhaust system are all going to make it hard work for the Ford.. going be a lot of work go into those heads structurally to hold the gasket alone.

blykins · #58 (**permalink**) 12-11-2015, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xb-60

Observations....

Sidelining early suggestions of 427/600hp and 482/800, the highest estimate so far is 585hp and engine size guess is 289ci. That's 125hp per liter.

Back in 1988, the last Cosworth DFZs in F1 were 3.5 liter, producing 590hp for 168hp per liter (but needed a rebuild after 200 miles)

The Ferrari F355 was the first stock street engine (I think) to produce over 100hp per liter (3.5liter, 5 valve, 375hp, 8500rpm top end, 107hp per liter)

When are you going to close the book and give us the details Brent?

Cheers,
Glen

Well, parts are trickling in. In all actuality it will be a little while before horsepower numbers are discovered.

I do know what the actual displacement is though.....

Maybe we could break it up into a 2-part contest? Put a deadline on it, then after the deadline is reached, I can tell everyone what the actual displacement is, then a little more details on the actual build? With over 1000 views and only a couple handfulls of guesses, what would everyone think about cutting the first part of the contest off at midnight tonight?

I won't be able to divulge a lot of information as it is a race engine and I don't want to show my hand in too many areas.

Tommy · #59 (**permalink**) 12-11-2015, 07:35 AM

It's your game. It's your money. You make the rules.

P.S. For those who haven't offered a guess, just make something up. Like me, you don't have to be an engine building expert to play and you might get lucky.

blykins · #60 (**permalink**) 12-11-2015, 07:37 AM

Yeah, but I'm an engine builder, not Bob Barker...

I just want to be fair.