An upcoming engine build....and a little game...

[blykins]

Waiting on some different valves to show up, but popped the heads on temporarily to mock up the intake manifold and see how much needed to be cut off the flanges and china walls.

[blykins]

Had to do a little experimenting....juggling between valves, spring pressures, etc.

Ended up with Ferrea titanium valves all the way around. Intake valve is a whopping 68g. Exhaust valve weighs 63g. This is one of the lightest valvetrain setups that I've seen...titanium valves, beehive springs with titainium retainers, etc.

Valve job will be done tomorrow, heads should be assembled tomorrow as well if no problems pop up. Then I can measure for pushrods and get things going.

Due to the dyno throttle servo and the way the Inglese intake is setup, I won't be able to dyno it with the Webers. I do, however, have a prepped Victor Jr. intake that I'll dyno with.

[undy]

Lash caps or hardened tips?

[Jac Mac]

Hmmm, Dyno headers or Cobra Headers for run-in, Dyno testing?

[blykins]

If I used cobra headers then I would have to use the side pipes too, because the headers don't have collectors. So, we will use dyno headers like we do every other engine.

Lash caps...

[olddog]

Well, I would like to revise my numbers, now that you are putting in lightanium valve train parts. I assume you are not putting those expensive parts in just to brag about them.


560 hp @ 10,000 rpm
320 torque @ 5000-6000 rpm

I think the intake swap is going to kill some power, maybe 40 hp. Engines that spin this fast can take advantage of or be killed by intake exhaust tuning.

[blykins]

Well, the Victor Jr will make more horsepower than the Webers, no doubt there. The engine had titanium intake valves to start with, but switching to titanium exhaust valves was nagging at me.

However, this engine will be done by 7000.........and 560 hp is WAYYYYYYY too high.

[olddog]

With Titanium valves and retainers on a short stroke small block, I honestly thought you were building for at least 10K rpm. So at 7K, I will stick with my original numbers.

I have Edelbrock performer rpm heads. I didn't build the engine so I do not know what was done to them, but I do know the intake port and exhaust ports perfectly match the gaskets. I have assumed the springs are as shipped. I try to keep it under 6K normally, as I want it to last. I did wind it to the rev limit (7K) in 3rd gear to see where it would loose it. It pulled strong all the way without any sign of valve float. Oh yea, it does have aluminum roller rockers. My point, I do not think you need Titanium to get to 7K.

So I'm wondering if there is some learning here for me. Although I know my engine can go to 7K, I have no idea if the springs look like they are about to go into orbit. That longevity thing is the reason I keep it under 6K. So is the reason for the Titanium so the engine can run 7K all day long, day after day, and live a long life?

[blykins]

Any time you can cut weight off the inside of an engine, it's going to be better for it. Lighter pistons and rods are easier on the crankshaft, block, and bearings. Lighter valvetrain requires less spring pressure for a given rpm.

This is essentially a max-effort engine build, but we have rules to follow.

We have to use stamped steel factory rocker arms. They can break and the rocker pivot balls can burn up. To counteract this, we have the rockers cryogenically treated and REM polished. We have tins that redirect any oil splash back to the rocker arm. We also try to run a minimum spring pressure....enough to keep from losing control of the valvetrain, but not enough to break factory rocker arms.

When the valves are light, springs are light, retainers are light, etc., then you effectively need less spring pressure.

The intake valve weighs 68g. Exhaust valve weighs 63. Titanium beehive retainer is feather-weight. It all adds up.

We simply can't turn 9000-10000 rpm with this setup and do it reliably. If there were no rules, then I'd be using T&D or Jesel shaft rocker arms, steel camshaft with DLC coated tool steel lifters, etc.

[olddog]

Oh that explains it.

Hopefully all that information wasn't already in the thread. I do forget things now and then.

[undy]

Ferrea also makes some nice and light hollow stemmed S/S intakes and exhausts. They're used extensively on LS7 builds, replacing the sodium filled exhausts.

[blykins]

A few very minor details to button up and we'll be ready to make noise.

Will be dyno'd with the Victor Jr. intake and initially lit off with the MSD distributor. I have a fully freshened-up Hipo 289 distributor to throw in it after the cam is broken in.

[blykins]

Unless I missed something, it looks like DWRAT nailed it to the exact horsepower (and cubic inch displacement).



You will notice that it was still making horsepower at the end of the pull. We had a bit of an issue with a cylinder head and it was leaking water at one one of the rocker arm stud bosses. One of the setbacks with working with 50 year old parts is that they have been beat on for......well....50 years.

So we had siliconed the crack and the rocker stud but I was just afraid to pull it really high for fear that the stud would work itself loose. Right after this pull, we cooled it down, then jerked the intake and head off so the cracks could be repaired.

Will post video soon.

[blykins]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=948oulplmuY[/ame]

[olddog]

Originally Posted by olddog

Quite a few years back, I stumbled onto a Ford dyno test of a race 289 back in the 60's. I don't remember much of any of the details, but it seems they were getting about 450 hp.

Now we have learned a lot since then, but the dyno math has changed (1960's showed more power than today). I don't know if these two cancel each other out or not. I think I will error on the side that knowledge has grown more than the difference on Hp calculations.

So I will take a wild guess at 475 hp at 7500 rpm and 380 torque at 5000.

Hats off to Dwrat

Looks like it would have made just under 450 Hp somewhere near 7500 Rpm. That's in the ballpark of back in the day. Very interesting.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by blykins

We had a bit of an issue with a cylinder head and it was leaking water at one one of the rocker arm stud bosses. One of the setbacks with working with 50 year old parts is that they have been beat on for......well....50 years.

Curious. Would have pressure testing the heads with block off plates found this leak? My son ran into a leak on a Chevy that magnaflux missed.

[blykins]

As for pressure testing, yes it would have caught it if it was cracked before assembly.

[DWRAT]

Thanks, I finally won at something.
This was a fun thread and I see olddog also super close especially on his tq guess at 5K.

[Bernica]

Insider trading!!!
Just kidding. Congrats on nailing it DWRAT. It looks like a great build and nice job.

[Jac Mac]

When and or where is this engine / car due to hit the track, just interested to follow its progress..