Club Cobra Keith Craft Racing  

Go Back   Club Cobra > Engine Building, Tuning, and Induction > Small Block Talk

Keith Craft Racing
Nevada Classics
MMG Superformance
Main Menu
Module Jump:
Nevada Classics
Nevada Classics
MMG Superformance
Advertise at CC
Banner Ad Rates
MMG Superformance
MMG Superformance
Keith Craft Racing
Keith Craft Racing
December 2024
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31        

Kirkham Motorsports

Like Tree22Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #61 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-2016, 07:01 AM
Cobrat24's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 71
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hinoonaz View Post
I just want to give you one more person to talk to. Robert at AIMS there in Reno. 775-359-8866. He rebuilt my 347. Unbelievable engine. He does a lot of work for my nephew at lake Tahoe and vice versa for the wood boat engines. Worth a call. No bias about all the other builders on this site. Holley 650 at 462 T and 470 hp. 9 1/2 :1 nice lopey cam and vic heads. The 408 if want over 500 IMO. Have fun.
I know Robert really well! He used to do all the machine work on my drag bike. I love that guy, he does really good work! What a small world.
Reply With Quote
  #62 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-2016, 09:48 AM
Cobrat24's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 71
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by olddog View Post
Be warned that Ford started with Speed Density. It uses a MAP sensor in the manifold to estimate what the air flow into the engine is at a given throttle position. It does not work well with big cams, as the vacuum can be lower at idle than it is at off idle with such a cam. Second it does not automatically adjust for altitude changes. When you turn the key on the ECU saves the MAP sensor reading and assumes that is the atmospheric pressure. It does not update again until you turn the engine off and restart. So if you drive 4000 feet up a mountain, its no better than a carb, however turning the engine off/on is much easier than changing jets.

Then Ford went to Mass Flow to truly measure the mass of the air entering the engine. It handle big cams much better than speed density, and you can start at sea level and drive to 12000 feet with perfect AFR. Now there are issues with big cams, but that is another long story on what is needed to compensate.

Most after market system are speed density with an option to go to alpha N. Alpha N uses throttle position only and is more crude than speed density. These systems can be tuned to run well, but they will not automatically compensate for elevation change.

Someone mention Pro M. Pro M used to be MassFlow. MassFlow used a 1989-1993 Mustang A9L ECU. I have one on my Cobra. It is a decent system, but in my opinion some of the claims were BS. Before going to a quarter horse chip from Moats and software to tune it myself, I looked hard at the new Pro M. It looks like a great system to me, but I did not buy it. I would have had to replace too much and spend to much $$ to switch over to it. If I remember correctly the cost of a complete system (fuel pump to intake, inclusive - wire harness and distributor) is ~$3500 give or take. I would look hard at that.

Much appreciated on the FI information. My cobra has the ford ecu with wiring in the car even though I'm carb'd. I need to get under the passenger side and see what I have and how much is there. Thinking of possibly utilizing the oem stuff with after market intake. I am very aware of the aggressive cam/vacuum issue with FI. Looking into options on that as well.
Reply With Quote
  #63 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2016, 11:35 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Memphis, TN
Cobra Make, Engine: SPF#1867 , KC427
Posts: 431
Not Ranked     
Default

Why can't someone just make a root style blower like a TVS or a Whipple for a Windsor! I can't stand the sound of a whiny centrifugal supercharger and wouldn't want all the plumbing that comes with that or a turbo. A twinscrew blower would be awesome.....more torque than you could use and big hp in the upper Rpms. I bet you could run pretty low boost and makes gobs of power with a 408/427
Reply With Quote
  #64 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2016, 12:16 PM
cycleguy55's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: White City, SK
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast, 460 CID
Posts: 2,908
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
Why can't someone just make a root style blower like a TVS or a Whipple for a Windsor! I can't stand the sound of a whiny centrifugal supercharger and wouldn't want all the plumbing that comes with that or a turbo. A twinscrew blower would be awesome.....more torque than you could use and big hp in the upper Rpms. I bet you could run pretty low boost and makes gobs of power with a 408/427
Try Dyers (Street Strip Roots Supercharger Kits and Blower Repair 471, 671, 871) - they have a kit for a 302W that works on a 351W with intake adapters from Price Motorsport (AP-01 and AP-04).

Holley / Weiand blowers (https://www.holley.com/products/supe.../supercharger/) would also work with the same adapters.

Couple either setup with a FiTech 'self-tuning' EFI 'power adder' system (single or dual quad) and you're good to go.
http://www.fitechefi.com/default.asp.pg-Products
__________________
Brian

Last edited by cycleguy55; 01-09-2016 at 12:22 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #65 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2016, 09:00 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: St. Louisville, Oh
Cobra Make, Engine: A&C 67 427 cobra SB
Posts: 2,445
Not Ranked     
Default

PhotoPost Classifieds - Shelby GT 350 Paxton supercharger 289 - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds

Just saw this in the For Sale section of this site. If interested, I would suggest pricing a new system to find out how much you would be saving. Then ask yourself, is that worth the risk and giving up a warranty?

Without a cooler you cannot push high boost levels.
Reply With Quote
  #66 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2016, 11:49 PM
Gaz64's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 2,797
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by olddog View Post

Without a cooler you cannot push high boost levels.
Water injection is an alternative:

Water Alcohol Methanol Ethanol Injection Systems - Articles - News & Updates - New Billet Aluminum Holley 4150 Water Injection Carburetor Plates

Just one of many high pressure systems.

Gary
__________________
Gary

Gold Certified Holden Technician
Reply With Quote
  #67 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2016, 09:22 AM
Cobrat24's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 71
Not Ranked     
Default

Just a heads up, thanks for all the advice and suggestions. My mech picked up the cobra, it goes in today for dyno before he work begins. We wanna see what it puts down at my elevation verses the elevation from where I picked it up. I'll keep you guys posted on the numbers. I'm anticipating a low hp/tq number.

I think the item I'm most excited to see is the exhaust build. My guy will be fabricating my headers and is working with Borla for the custom side pipe fit. Goal is 3.5 inch pipes into the side pipes. He hasn't disclosed the heads or cam combo but he's matching the flow rate, which is why he is changing the exhaust. I can't wait to see this setup. I will post pictures as they come along.


Came to terms with using what I have. And working on a different build down the road when I can really afford the bigger motor.
Reply With Quote
  #68 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2016, 03:18 PM
Cobrat24's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 71
Not Ranked     
Default

Well just got the results of the Dyno..

As usual a humbling experience. 243hp/253tq. So anything being done to this will see big gains. There's our starting point.
Attached Images
 
Gaz64 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #69 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2016, 03:23 PM
patrickt's Avatar
Half-Ass Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,005
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobrat24 View Post
Well just got the results of the Dyno..

As usual a humbling experience. 243hp/253tq. So anything being done to this will see big gains. There's our starting point.
Dang, I think my daughter's Camry has more than that. Well, on the bright side, you have nowhere to go but up.
Reply With Quote
  #70 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2016, 03:28 PM
Bernica's Avatar
Senior CC Premier Member
Visit my Photo Gallery
Lifetime Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SoCal, CA
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader
Posts: 3,574
Not Ranked     
Default

So, assuming 20 percent loss in the drivetrain you are just over 300hp at the crank?
You have work to do!
__________________
All that's stopping you now Son, is blind-raging fear.......
Reply With Quote
  #71 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2016, 03:51 PM
Cobrat24's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 71
Not Ranked     
Default

Yeah needless to say the guy I bought it from last summer was claiming 400hp. I knew it was less when I drove it but not this low.. Lol
Reply With Quote
  #72 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2016, 03:59 PM
Bernica's Avatar
Senior CC Premier Member
Visit my Photo Gallery
Lifetime Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SoCal, CA
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader
Posts: 3,574
Not Ranked     
Default

Dig deep!
Keep the kids in public schools and make sure they get scholarships.
Top Ramen is a good food source and use the fireplace and not the heater.
All in kidding.
Cobrat24 likes this.
__________________
All that's stopping you now Son, is blind-raging fear.......
Reply With Quote
  #73 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2016, 04:00 PM
cycleguy55's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: White City, SK
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast, 460 CID
Posts: 2,908
Not Ranked     
Default

Best guess: 288 FWHP, 299 FW torque. Wheel Horsepower to Crankshaft Horsepower Guestimator
__________________
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #74 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2016, 04:32 PM
patrickt's Avatar
Half-Ass Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,005
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernica View Post
Dig deep!
Keep the kids...
Naaaah, if they're young enough, I think you can sell them on ebay.
Cobrat24 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #75 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2016, 04:47 PM
Bernica's Avatar
Senior CC Premier Member
Visit my Photo Gallery
Lifetime Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SoCal, CA
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader
Posts: 3,574
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleguy55 View Post
Best guess: 288 FWHP, 299 FW torque. Wheel Horsepower to Crankshaft Horsepower Guestimator
Well that's sad!
Not sure a supercharger or blower or whatever can bring you out of that!
Pull it, sell it and put what you want in there with your budget.
Just my 2c
__________________
All that's stopping you now Son, is blind-raging fear.......
Reply With Quote
  #76 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2016, 04:53 PM
cycleguy55's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: White City, SK
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast, 460 CID
Posts: 2,908
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt View Post
Naaaah, if they're young enough, I think you can sell them on ebay.
Yup, you can alway make more.
__________________
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #77 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2016, 05:03 PM
Cobrat24's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 71
Not Ranked     
Default

My mech is already getting into the motor. We will be waking it up! Stay tuned for pics and new dyno when finished. We will be using the existing motor.
Reply With Quote
  #78 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2016, 01:42 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 427 S/C, Ford 427 Side-oiler 2x4 bbl
Posts: 66
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by olddog View Post
Be warned that Ford started with Speed Density. It uses a MAP sensor in the manifold to estimate what the air flow into the engine is at a given throttle position. It does not work well with big cams, as the vacuum can be lower at idle than it is at off idle with such a cam. Second it does not automatically adjust for altitude changes. When you turn the key on the ECU saves the MAP sensor reading and assumes that is the atmospheric pressure. It does not update again until you turn the engine off and restart. So if you drive 4000 feet up a mountain, its no better than a carb, however turning the engine off/on is much easier than changing jets.
Olddog,

Your statement isn't entirely true. You were good up until you gave the 4000 feet comment.

Speed Density systems actually DO compensate for altitude on the fly without having to turn the key on/engine off (KOEO). They do it by sensing the manifold pressure (via the MAP) every time it sees WOT (via the TPS or Full Throttle switch on a minimum function system).

So on your way up that 4000' mountain, every time you push the throttle to the floor the ECM sees atmospheric pressure (since man vac drops to 0"Hg) and notes it as BARO.

I have seen ONE instance where a customer drove his car over a very long distance with a *gradual* rise in elevation without ever having to floor the gas pedal and he got a CEL out of it. That's one instance in over 25 years of EEC work so it is rare.


Hope That Helps,

Phill Pollard
Reply With Quote
  #79 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2016, 02:42 PM
Cobrat24's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 71
Not Ranked     
Default

Ok so got to see some of the parts coming in. So for starters I was able to see some of the exhaust material. Headers are off but I don't have any pictures of that yet as he hasn't started. But really glad we took these sidepipes off with a cat! The borla mufflers will be going in the engine compartment followed by the big side pipes.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #80 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2016, 02:44 PM
Cobrat24's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 71
Not Ranked     
Default

Here are the borla mufflers..
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
The representations expressed are the representations and opinions of the clubcobra.com forum members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and viewpoints of the site owners, moderators, Shelby American, any other replica manufacturer, Ford Motor Company. This website has been planned and developed by clubcobra.com and its forum members and should not be construed as being endorsed by Ford Motor Company, or Shelby American or any other manufacturer unless expressly noted by that entity. "Cobra" and the Cobra logo are registered trademarks for Ford Motor Co., Inc. clubcobra.com forum members agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). Thank you for visiting clubcobra.com. For full policy documentation refer to the following link: CC Policy
Links monetized by VigLink