Lykins Motorsports 434 Clevor Dyno Results...

[blykins]

This one wouldn't be too street friendly as shown here, but it could be "dumbed down" a little bit for street use.

*Ford Racing Boss 351 block, 9.200" deck height, 4.155" bore size
*Callies Dragonslayer 4" stroke crankshaft
*Crower 6" rods
*Coated Clevite main/rod bearings
*Roller 55mm cam bearings
*Diamond forged pistons, flat top, .043/.043/3mm ring pack, coated
*CNC ported CHI 3V cylinder heads, Ferrea Comp 2.250/1.750 valves. Heads flow almost 390 cfm at lift
*Hand ported CHI intake manifold
*Quick Fuel 1000 cfm 4500 style carburetor
*Custom Comp Cams 55mm solid roller camshaft, .825" net lift
*GZ Motorsports vacuum pump
*CVR electric water pump
*T&D shaft mounted rocker arms
*Custom Trend 7/16" double taper pushrods
*Morel .903" solid roller lifters
*ATI balancer with MSD crank trigger

This one was for a bracket race customer of mine in Wichita. Needs 112 octane as it's 13.5:1 compression, but at 777 hp @ 7000 rpm with 630 lb-ft of torque, it could afford to lose a few ponies to a lower compression ratio. Every once in awhile I get a guy wanting to put something like this in a Cobra, so I thought I would throw it up here.

This engine as it sits would set you back around $25k.

[patrickt]

At first I thought the thread was "Clever Dyno Results," but that's quite a bit of power. How does an engine like that behave in "around town" driving?

[MOTORHEAD]

Pardon my ignorance, but what's "Cleveland" on the engine ? The heads ? They are 3 valve ?

Ted

[olddog]

Originally Posted by MOTORHEAD

Pardon my ignorance, but what's "Cleveland" on the engine ? The heads ? They are 3 valve ?

Ted

Ford called the Cleveland heads 2V for the 2 barrel carb engine and 4V for the 4 barrel high performance version of the engine.

No one has ever said the 4V intake ports are too small. In fact, many claim they are too big.

CHI makes a set of head they call 3V, which I assume they are trying to tell you they are about half way between the 2V and 4V intake port sizes. They must know what they are doing because they are about as good a head as you can get at a reasonable price.

They are indeed designed to be a Cleveland head, but can be bolted on a Windsor thus Clevor is appropriate.

[olddog]

Strangely, as I waited to fall asleep last night and my mind wondered, I was wanting to know what a 4.125 bore x 4.0 stroke Windsor with a Cleveland 4V head would do. The CHI 3V would do and the 0.030" overbore is close enough. Sadly though you went and put a radical cam to far from my idea to compare, and the compression is just shy of a diesel.

Well I know that's because a customer wanted it that way, but what about my curiosity? If you put a nice hydraulic roller cam in the 230-235 duration @ 0.050 range and a modest lift of .575 or so, with a nice 10.5 compression ratio in this engine, what would you expect on the dyno. Appropriate intake and carb of course. Obviously It would not need all the expensive stuff, but cost is not my curiosity.

I know it takes a lot of audacity to ask for such free information, but since you are such a nice guy I thought I would take advantage of you.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by patrickt

At first I thought the thread was "Clever Dyno Results," but that's quite a bit of power. How does an engine like that behave in "around town" driving?

It would be fussy, rowdy, and peaky. It does have a 2-circuit carb instead of a 3-circuit, so it would be a little more streetable than usual, but if I were to stick this in a Cobra, it would have a 5-speed trans and a 4.30-4.56 gear.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by MOTORHEAD

Pardon my ignorance, but what's "Cleveland" on the engine ? The heads ? They are 3 valve ?

Ted

The heads and intake are Cleveland pieces. The heads are made by CHI and they are bar none the best Cleveland heads out there.

The Ford Cleveland head was available in either a 2V or 4V head. The 2V head was higher velocity, lower flow. The 4V head was higher flow, lower velocity, so it needed a big inch motor to pull on it, or a smaller engine needed to pull a lot of rpms.

CHI's head is a hybrid....high velocity, high flow head. These are only 260cc and use the same intake gasket as the 225cc version of the head.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by olddog

Strangely, as I waited to fall asleep last night and my mind wondered, I was wanting to know what a 4.125 bore x 4.0 stroke Windsor with a Cleveland 4V head would do. The CHI 3V would do and the 0.030" overbore is close enough. Sadly though you went and put a radical cam to far from my idea to compare, and the compression is just shy of a diesel.

Well I know that's because a customer wanted it that way, but what about my curiosity? If you put a nice hydraulic roller cam in the 230-235 duration @ 0.050 range and a modest lift of .575 or so, with a nice 10.5 compression ratio in this engine, what would you expect on the dyno. Appropriate intake and carb of course. Obviously It would not need all the expensive stuff, but cost is not my curiosity.

I know it takes a lot of audacity to ask for such free information, but since you are such a nice guy I thought I would take advantage of you.

A factory 4V wouldn't come close to what these heads do. A 4V Cleveland head is a 270-280 cfm head without any work. The 208/225cc CHI heads approach 320-330 cfm out of the box. Now, with that being said, without cam and compression, you probably wouldn't expect much more than the same combination with a set of Trick Flow heads or larger AFR heads.

However, there is indeed a cap to the inline valve heads, whereas the canted valve heads will keep on going. It's not uncommon to see these CHI and BT canted valve heads hitting 400 cfm.

[mikeinatlanta]

That motor is similar to mine. Three questions. What is redline, how much hp did you gain with the electric pump, and why keep the distributor with crank fired? Why not a multi-coil setup?

[olddog]

Well, I'm sure you would have to look at the flow at every 0.1" increment of valve opening to compare the heads for a milder lower lift cam.

I was thinking 500-550 hp out of that engine with my milder cam and a very flat torque curve. Am I wrong?

I like to get my power by the best flowing heads and keep the cam more tame, so I can have the flat torque curve. I want my peak Hp by 6000 rpm at the most. 5500 at the least.

So are you saying that for such an engine the CHI heads would not be any better than trick flow or AFR heads? Or at least not enough improvement to justify the cost?

I wasn't wanting to hijack your thread, but if you are wanting to toss raw meet to the Cobra guys, I do think a milder Clevor would interest a bigger number of us. I admit I am talking way too mild for many. Call my idea the extreme of the mild side and the engine you just built as the extreme on the wild side (at least for a street Cobra), and that should about cover it, as anything could be built between the two.

[blykins]

Mike, I didn't test with/without the electric pump. It's probably not worth much, 5-10 hp, but the benefit is that he can turn the pump on without the engine running, which is handy to cool the engine down between passes. This is strictly a drag race engine.

A distributor with a crank trigger is about as rugged and dependable as you can get. When you point a timing light at the balancer with the engine running, it looks as though the engine is not running at all.

Dog, I wouldn't expect much more with the CHI heads over a good set of TFS or AFR heads. Keep in mind that going to a Cleveland head necessitates a header swap and probably an accessory bracket swap....in addition to new pistons, etc.

[Bernica]

Nice setup for the intended purpose!
I kind of doubt it would fit under the hood of a Cobra in its current configuration though.

[blykins]

Eh, who needs a hood.

[MOTORHEAD]

O.D. & Brent: Thanks for the education on the heads!

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Nice setup for the intended purpose!
I kind of doubt it would fit under the hood of a Cobra in its current configuration though.

Mine fits.

[Bernica]

Impressive. Just leaving it exposed and on display? Or going to put a big box over it all?...

[mikeinatlanta]

Flaunt it if ya got it. The black is the guide coat for paint. The intake is a twin 5" true ram air system feeding a 1200 cfm throttle body. Never did se the point of building truly awesome motors like we see in post#1 and topping it with an air filter smaller than my motorcycle's.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by blykins

Eh, who needs a hood.

Apparently not Mike!
Brent, I would be curious how your engine turns in times on the track. What car is it going into?

[mikeinatlanta]

Realistically, the cobra is pretty much a caricature of a sports car anyway. A nasty motor poking out the top only helps in my book. Things like that help to distinguish the difference between tribute and replica.

I kind of wish I had gone for those Cleveland heads instead of my 235cc twisted wedge R heads. Those valve covers look wicked enough to do it even without the performance benefits. If I didn't have stupid money already tied up in my exhaust I'd consider a swap. That said, the distributor would have to go.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Apparently not Mike!
Brent, I would be curious how your engine turns in times on the track. What car is it going into?

It's a '69 Mustang.

I built him a 408C several years back and it dyno'd 575hp here. He just wanted a milder engine, something that would run on pump gas (10:1 compression), sound good for cruising, etc.

His downfall was that he took it to test and tune one night and got hooked...

By the end of the season last year, he was running 10.60's with that 408 I built him. Car wasn't sorted out real well, but he was doing pretty good. He decided that he wanted to change the car to a race-only piece, so he asked if I could build him a much larger engine.

I gave him a 200 hp bump.