LS6, squeaky clutch ?

[Austria_Cobra]

Hello!

my new build has a squeaky clutch, if I push lightly the clutch pedal, squeaking disappears.

Original clutch on LS6, pushed by a new Tilton 6000 (with clearance).

Does anyone know, where squeaky is generated?

Would it be possible to flood with WD40? does the grinding wheels will then be damaged?

The engine and transmission are mounted, getting inside is actually not possible. Via endoscope I can see a bit, but nothing of interest I think.

Thx!

(upload of file fails.....)

https://ibb.co/yPVBmbN
https://ibb.co/FxmHFc3
https://ibb.co/BcFL1TN
https://ibb.co/DV4dCNr

[eschaider]

Try to identify the location of the squeak audibly. It will either be from the clutch pedal linkage under the dash, or it will be from inside the bell housing.

If it sounds like its origin is under the dash, it is most likely the clutch pedal pivot point. A small amount of a lightweight oil like WD-40 or its equivalent, lubricating the clutch pedal pivot under the dash, will correct the squeaking sound.

If it is not coming from under the dash, your use of a Tilton 6000 hydraulic throwout bearing means the squeak is coming from the pressure plate's diaphragm spring inside the clutch cover. The diaphragm spring has found an unlubricated dry spot inside your clutch cover, that it abrades against (and should not) to produce the squeaking sound. In time, the clutch dust normally produced inside the bellhousing as the clutch is engaged and disengaged will find its way to the squeak and likely but not necessarily provide the lubrication necessary to quiet it.

If you can not wait or do not want to run the risk of the process not coming to a happy ending, you always have the alternative of removing and either fixing or replacing the pressure plate.

The shortest way home, so to speak, would be a squeaking clutch pedal pivot under the dash — a little squirt of WD-40 or a similar product will quickly make the squeak go away — the alternative is a lot of work.

[Austria_Cobra]

Hi Ed

Unlikely it cannot be the linkage, I have Tilton hydraulic underfloor pedals and the new Tilton 6000 perfect adjusted.

The LS6 did not run for nearby 10 years, so the very loud squeaking will be from the dry spot, as you say.
If I run the engine for minutes, the squeaking becomes quieter until it is gone.
But every time I start the engine again, the squeaking is the same. Temperature?

Hopefully during riding it will fix on its one

Still thinking of giving some WD40 shots inside the bell housing ?
the Tilton 6000 will ignore it, my concern is that the clutch will then slip

[eschaider]

If you are certain it is in the bellhousing, then you already know the solution. BTW, it is not a shot of WD-40 in the bellhousing.

[Austria_Cobra]

demount or drive?

could you pls explain to me, how does it work and where is the dry spot situated?

is there any lubrication needed on the clutch, during mount?

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by Austria_Cobra

demount or drive?

Remove the clutch.

Originally Posted by Austria_Cobra

could you pls explain to me, how does it work ...

A clutch works by sandwiching a typically organic composition disc between the machined friction surface on a flywheel and a similarly machined surface on a movable, spring-loaded, cast iron pressure application plate (pressure plate) that is bolted to that flywheel. When the normal force, exerted by the flywheel/pressure plate assembly on the disc situated between the two of them, rises to a level that the friction created between the disc and the flywheel/pressure plate assembly is sufficient to move the mass of the car, the car will move forward or backward depending on which gear it is in.

Originally Posted by Austria_Cobra

...where is the dry spot situated?

The squeak is not coming from a dry spot. It is coming from two pieces of metal somewhere that were not intended to touch, but do when the clutch pedal is depressed.

Originally Posted by Austria_Cobra

is there any lubrication needed on the clutch, during mount?

None.

[Austria_Cobra]

OK, this is bad... it has to wait, do not have the time to demount now

could it be the pilot bearing?

[eschaider]

It is unknown.

[Austria_Cobra]

Opened a beer right now...

located via endoscope the point from bearing touching the spring
made a WD40 shot there and the squeak is gone.

[eschaider]

Good Show!

Not to be a nay-sayer, but that does mean the TOB is running dry inside, probably because the seal has been previously damaged. A damaged oil seal on a TOB means the bearing will need to be replaced at some point in time — probably sooner rather than later. The good news is you will most likely get to decide when.

[Austria_Cobra]

Yes, that could be a reason, the bearing came off one time, when I testet it uninstalled.
but why, it should stop the fluid from coming out of the bearing, actually it does.
what can be the reason running dry?

[eschaider]

Dry means no lubricant. No lubricant means it escaped from the bearing. The only way for it to escape is through a damaged seal. The question becomes, where is the damage, and how was it incurred? The usual method of answering these questions involves visually inspecting the bad seal. You will have that opportunity when you decide to replace the bearing.

[Austria_Cobra]

Originally Posted by eschaider

Dry means no lubricant. No lubricant means it escaped from the bearing. The only way for it to escape is through a damaged seal. The question becomes, where is the damage, and how was it incurred? The usual method of answering these questions involves visually inspecting the bad seal. You will have that opportunity when you decide to replace the bearing.

the only seal is a rubber seal to prevent the oil from the system (clutch pedal tilton to bearing) not to flow out of the bearing, to push the bearing by pressing the pedal.
is there any other seal inside?

from Tilton:

BEARING MAKES NOISE (NEW BEARING):
• Make sure it is the clutch bearing and not the input shaft bearing.
- Does the noise stop when the pedal is depressed?
- Does it only make noise when the pedal is depressed?
• Some new bearings will make noise when skidding on initial take-up. On a new bearing, the grease is not evenly
distributed, and the seals are stiff. As the bearing breaks in, this will usually go away

is there a bearing or a seal in the flat face front of the bearing, that pushes the spring?

[eschaider]

This is what a standard ball bearing looks like;
https://www.cbccuscinetti.com/wp-con...ll-Bearing.jpg

This is what a sealed ball bearing looks like;
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HLB155joa...ccessories.jpg

For lubricant to leak out and leave the bearing dry, the seal needs to be compromised. Your bearing is dry. Guess what that means.

[Austria_Cobra]

I know how bearings look like, what I am asking is, is there a bearing inside? ( I think so)
are there any blueprints or cutouts available of the 6100?
thx!

[Austria_Cobra]

this is what my endoscope shows, is there a lubrication shown on the shaft?

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by Austria_Cobra

I know how bearings look like, what I am asking is, is there a bearing inside? ( I think so)
are there any blueprints or cutouts available of the 6100?
thx!

Because a clutch is a rotating component of the engine, anything that comes in contact with a rotating member must itself either rotate or somehow be fixed to the rotating member and then rotate with the member. This brings us back to it must rotate.

Rotating members can either use a roller or ball style of bearing or a flat surface suspended on a thin hydrostatic film of oil, style bearing. A rod bearing uses the flat surface and hydrostatic oil film model. This means your throwout bearing must use the roller/ball style. The geometry of throwout bearings lends itself handily to the ball-style bearing solution. I can not imagine a hydrostatic oil film style throwout bearing.

While the endoscope pictures are helpful and better than nothing, the only way to get the information you need is the removal and visual inspection of the throwout bearing, including an attempt to rotate it by hand. Of course, you can always choose to do any number of other things, but in the end, you will be pulling the engine and or transmission to get at that bearing for a closer look.

It may happen sooner, or it may happen later, but it is going to happen. For the most part, you can determine when unless, you wait until you are forced to act by a catastrophic bearing failure — in which case you are demoted from piloting the airplane to a being passenger who watches what happens instead of controlling it.

[Austria_Cobra]

I understand what you ar saying, thx!

Just did some movements inside the gateway, everything is actually fine now.

Will order some spare parts and next time I'll checking all there.

[Austria_Cobra]

Tilton:

Hi Richard,

I believe that is the finger contact on those types of spring assist pressure plates. I have had a few other people comment on that same noise and it did not cause any issues, other than hearing it.





Thank you,

Tom