New block

[flipper35]

I am getting a new (another Mopar 360, everything is set up for this block.) block so I can do this engine right. Some things I didn't have the time or money to do when I bought the car.

I need some people with more experience to tell me if this is OK or not.

Here is what I was thinking.

Have the block bored .30 over (not done on the current engine)

KB pistons @ 10.5:1 flat top w/ reliefs (current cast 9.0:1)

Have the whole rotating mass balanced internally so I can use a lightweight flywheel. (externally balanced right now)

Dart or Commando Aluminum heads. (has excelent heads now, but are iron which aren't good for the higher compression)

Roller rockers, undecided on brand.

Undecided on the intake.

Will have to ditch the Holley 4160 @ 600cfm vac secondary.

Will need a new cam to match the new heads and CR. I have a new Mopar 320/320 513/513 108 degree centerline.

Stock cranks are good for about 650hp, but the rods are good for only about 7000rpm.

I found a place in Yuma for the parts and machine work.

What am I missing, what should I change, is it worth the effort. I can take my time and buy the pieces as I have the extra money. These reccomendations were from local people that should be in the know, but . . .

An identical engine to my current one was dynoed at 406hp@5300rpm and 435ft/lbs@4600 rpm

[terry lee]

Flipper
I don't think there are a whole bunch of guys here that speak "MOPAR." I have seen a few who speak alittle "Cheby." Then there is the occasional "GN V-6rs". "Ford" seems to be the national language of CC.
Throw out a term like "HEMI," that should get a little attention.
TL

[flipper35]

Yes I know I should probably put this in a Mopar forum, but I only go to one and this is it. The basics are still the same, I expect the increase in torque and horsepower should be similar with any block. Therefor I guess someone could tell me relatively what to expect. I thought about buying the Desktop Dyno 2000 since I will have time with the new block. Really more horse isn't the issue as much as having the engine done like I wish I could have the first time.

[RACER X #99]

Brent,
You didn't say what you are using the car for. If it is just a street cruiser then what you already have is probably OK. If you want to do some high rpm racing then perhaps a set of forged connecting rods might be a good idea. I have destroyed two good engines running open track, both because of rod failure. As far as cam choice, tell the cam grinder what you are planning to do and what components you are planning on using. They will recomend a cam grind to suit your needs.
Nice to see somebody doing something a little different.

Good luck with the build and keep it small.

Cranky

[hound dog]

Flipper,
Just a couple of thoughts. First, you don't get much gain by boring the engine .030 over. If the bores are good, leave it where it is and save the .030 over for the next rebuild. Second, for the type of engine you're building internal balancing gets to be pretty expensive. You end up with "nonstandard" components for a flywheel and harmonic balancer, and just the cost of mallory metal alone can make your eyes spin. Think I'd stay with the external balance. Cam is probably OK if you have an automatic trans but I might step up the lift a little if I had an manual trans. Otherwise sounds like a pretty good build to me.
h dog

[terry lee]

Brent,
You can post anywhere you want. It's your money and your car. Build what you want. I was trying to have alittle fun on a rather depressing day. Now having said that, a HEMI in a Cobra, WOW! I have been considereding trying to develope a set of hemi type heads with 4 -valves and dual spark plugs per cylinder, coupled with overhead cams. But I still want to refer to it as powered by Ford.
TL

[RACER X #99]

Terry,
Do you mean these.

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/show...ght=arao+heads

[flipper35]

Hound Dog, all the light flywheels and any aftermarket harmonic balancers require the 360 to be internally balanced. It is a manual a833. Same as they use behind a Hemi.

Racer X, I am planning on my NASA license this year and the current engine will be fine to start. Eventually I will want more for the track.

I think to fit a 426 Hemi, I would have to run the headers some goofy way or cut the foot boxes.

[flipper35]

I found all the parts I need at Hughes Engines out of Illinois. Including an assembled crate motor with 535hp on pump gas. If I am willing to drop a little horse, I could get 530ft/lbs of torque. I also found out the chavy guys are really limited in the flat tappet cams with the small lifter bore.

They also have a complete stroker kit (entire rotating mass, balances, and bearings) for $1500+ to go to 408cid.

To build the block I have I would have to spend about $4000.00 - $5000 plus the machining on the block itself. Does this sound like a reasonable price? I don't know because I was given most of the parts last time.

Thanks guys.

BTW, most pistons are not available in the stock 4.000 bore. Otherwise I would leave it until it needed it.

[jmarsey]

Brent,

Here's my zero balanced 331. Notice the round slugs of mallory $$$$$. I don't know what's reasonable but I have between 5 and 6k in this short block, blue printed R-302 block, includes sleeved lifter bores. Lots of machine work. Good luck with your project.

John

[flipper35]

Just to clarify, those are parts prices, no assembly labor included. Also, has anyone heard of Weber flywheels/flexplates etc?

[jmarsey]

Brent,

My short block example would include new parts: block & machine work, rotating assembly, balance work, de-burring, epoxy paint, bronze lifter bores and some other stuff. This was also assembled. No flywheel or any external stuff. Just block & rotating assembly.

Weber is a good company. Don't know how they hold up in race applications.

John

[flipper35]

The prices sound reasonable then to me. Hughes does mostly race (strip and circle track) engines so I guess the Weber flywheel would hold up OK, I had just never heard of them.

Thanks for the help guys, I think I am on my way to an engine with a much broader power band, smoother power delivery (not peaky), probably be more effecient, and will sound better. Now what to do with my old engine?

[RACER X #99]

John,
With that small flywheel you must be running a double or triple disc clutch. 535 HP out of 331 cubes that sounds like a serious track car. I would like to see some more pictures of your racecar.

Cranky

[jmarsey]

Cranky,

I don't know how serious of a track car it will be but I am trying to build the car for open track events. Yes, that is the Tilton low ground clearance setup. Tilton flywheel, bell housing, tob & 7.25" triple disc clutch pack. There are some old pics at my CC photo album and also older pics at: http://www.clubphoto.com
Type in: jbl

I'm not too far away from away from actally driving the chassis around. If everything checks out, we'll mount the body. I will try to get some more current pics. Getting closer.

Any Cranky members in the San Francisco area?

John

[RACER X #99]

We have one member in California that I know of and that is Bob Evans in San Diego. We also have Neal Jackson In AZ. The Cranky crew is getting bigger.

I checked out your car, that is one serious Cobra.
Good luck,
Cranky

[flipper35]

Guys, I have one more question.

Carb size and model. I decided to go with the stroker 408 kit. Will be turning only about 6500 rpm. Unsure yet of hp/tq figures, but I would like a streetable carb useable on the track.

I have a Holley 4160 (600cfm) and a Carter AFB (625cfm).

Someone locally has a 750 double pumper I can get reasonably, freshly rebuilt off of a late model stock car, but I think I like a choke. Or should I use that for the track and the Carter on the street? Or a 4160hp or Street Avenger or . . .

[hound dog]

Forget the 600 holley and the 625 carter. Buy the 750 holley double pumper and you'll be about right. If you have access to the products from AED in Richmond, Va. you might find something there you like even better. I've got one of their holleys that's a 650 built on an 850 base. Carb flows about 800cfm at wot and still runs great on the street. Love it!
h dog

[flipper35]

Sorry, one more.

I have heard a few racers complain about the KB pistons. Something to do with them expanding too much when set up in a street motor and then runnig hard for a length of time. Are the forged worth the extra $200? I was told Diamond makes a good forged piston for my motor.

[flipper35]

The block is here. This is what I decided. Y'all can tell me if I am off base somewhere, I am certainly no expert. I wish there was a builder here or near by.

360 block .030 over to fit the pistons available (though I may be able to get stock bore sizes now).

SCAT Crank
Diamond Racing forged pistons (641g with pin) 10.5:1 CR (iron heads)
Speed Pro narrow, plasma-moly piston rings (file fit)
Federal Mogul main and rod bearings
Forged, I-beam, 5140 chrome moly steel connecting rods with ARP Wave-Loc rod bolts (+$180 for H beam)
Crank assembly is dynamically, internal balanced

Weber aluminum flywheel and clutch ass'y
BJH Dynamics 7# vibration damper.

Iron heads machined and ported to match CR and cam specs.

Custom ground Hughes (Engle) cam. Ground to make use of the larger lifter bore on Mopar engines (Better ramp speeds)

2.02/1.625 valves

Air-Gap intake.

Unsure on Carb. Holley, BG, EB Thunder series. 750/800cfm. I am told a dual plane needs more than a single plane because the rating is at 1.5 inches.

With a 750cfm EB carb a similar engine was 485hp and 530ft/lbs and I don't have to spin it more than 6500rpm.

To my untrained brain this looks like a nice streetable motor that will take the strain of some road racing.